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Ballo
Trad climber
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Jan 17, 2018 - 09:11pm PT
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LOL, Clinton didn't bomb anything away. He just created another excuse for some more permanent military basis of foreign occupation.
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Sir Robin
Trad climber
Pocatello
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Jan 17, 2018 - 09:12pm PT
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Ballo, the US has a history of meddling in Haiti. The current situation in Haiti didn't just spring out of nowhere. The US invaded and occupied Haiti in 1915, and took control of the financial reserves and made the government rewrite the Constitution to give foreigners the right to own land.The US government held onto Haiti's purse strings until almost 1950. The US supported both Papa Doc (Francois Duvalier) and Baby Doc (Jean-Claude Duvalier) as they drained the nation.
So no, the Haitians aren't just trying to blame other people. Haiti is a nation that has been kicked around by global powers like a football.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/haiti-us-occupation-hundred-year-anniversary
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Jan 17, 2018 - 09:18pm PT
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Sir Robin, as I've posted elsewhere, yes Wilson was a stooge for the banks. However in no way has Haiti helped their own cause.
The public support for keeping Haiti under heel also came from the brutal and racial nature of the revolution. I'm not saying it should have happened, but the mistrust wasn't just earned in one direction.
As for the draining of a nation, how many nations have done well due to their natural resources? With very few exceptions (and fewer when oil runs out), capital goods are what separate the poor from the rich nations. Funnily enough Haiti would do well to demand a Norwegian model of a sovereign fund to manage their gold revenues instead of Tony Rodham.
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Jan 17, 2018 - 09:47pm PT
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I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure it was Aristide who gave voodoo an official legitimacy in Haiti (cynically, I'm sure).
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Jan 17, 2018 - 09:48pm PT
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xCon so deos that make Aristide the Communist Saint?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jan 17, 2018 - 09:55pm PT
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Democracy is way over-rated. It’s really just mob rule.
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Jan 17, 2018 - 10:10pm PT
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Democracy is a word people throw around when they claim to be speaking for everyone else.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jan 17, 2018 - 10:24pm PT
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Lotta folk from shithole democracies wanna come to our shithole really badly.
Izzit cause our democracy is so much betta, or we just have betta cake?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jan 17, 2018 - 10:34pm PT
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Kingtoots, when I swore my oath of service as an officer I swore to
“support and defend the Constitution of the United States.”
It didn’t say NUTHIN’ about no kinda democracy, capisce?
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Rollover
climber
Gross Vegas
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Jan 17, 2018 - 11:38pm PT
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 18, 2018 - 07:31am PT
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This topic seems to be rapidly degeneration into boring he said she said. There were some thoughtful posts earlier, but lately...... Any votes to nuke it? Or, looking at it in the obverse, any votes to keep it?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jan 18, 2018 - 07:32am PT
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DMT, I already posted that yonks ago but the komrades gave the Swedes a get-outta-jail card for racism.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Jan 18, 2018 - 07:34am PT
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In saner times, this would be a non-issue.
We've become society that thrives on being offended... and rages about the offenses.
We're no less petty and immature than our President.
We have met the enemy...
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jan 18, 2018 - 09:11am PT
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EdwardT wrote: In saner times, this would be a non-issue.
perhaps he doesn't know or remember that Howard Cosell left his job on Monday Night Football after very negative responses to his reference to Alvin Garrett as "that little monkey." I was watching the game it was shocking to hear, Cosell was immediately defending himself "I didn't say that" which he had.
That was 1983. Cosell was fired from ABC after this "non-issue."
Of course there were, at that time, the alleged MNF get togethers where someone would shotgun a sacrificial TV when Howard first appeared on a given night, Howard was a NYC Jew after all.
Were those saner times?
[you can find the clip on YouTube]
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jan 18, 2018 - 09:19am PT
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Which sport has an "ape index" for wingspan measurement?
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jan 18, 2018 - 09:34am PT
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If you people can't figure out why African people might be offended by that, well, there's just no hope for you.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jan 18, 2018 - 09:55am PT
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It’s only January and the stoopid Swedes have already run out of Linear Lime veneer trim for Volvos? That’s messed up.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Jan 18, 2018 - 11:09am PT
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I have to wonder if the stylist or photographer in that photo shoot didn't know full well what they were doing/suggesting, and were nothing but gleeful to see their "work" make it into publication.
Like that mage that got to NYT of George Bush speaking at an event, and there was a red, whit, blue swag of fabric decorating the table he stood behind, and the shooter got an angle that made it look like he was wearing a square-dancing skirt.
Or the t-shirt I once saw in a Gap store(the outlet, for reasons you'll see in the following words) where the word was "shirt" but the graphic layout made the "r" so much less visible, that it looked like the word S#!T
Or the toy that made the news a few Xmas' ago where a toy had a graphic emblem in the design that was exactly like a symbol people who sell children for sex use to let other, knowing, members of that society know the child is "available."
As for climbing, if it came out that a plus "ape index" seemed, very much, to be correlated to a less positive "index" size, and that the greater the Ape Index, the smaller the Weenie Length, how would you feel seeing your photo in print in a climbing mag, with the words "Look at that Ape Index!"
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Jan 18, 2018 - 12:20pm PT
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We've become society that thrives on being offended... and rages about the offenses. Edward T was apparently on to something since this has already been quoted a few times.
I agree that some people seem more prone to offense in the past. I'm still not sure about the whole "micro-aggression" thing. I get it, but I don't always believe that every offense has a racial animus. However, some of the offense is due to a changing status quo. Society has acknowledged that, unlike before, white males should no longer be the sole arbiter of what is offensive and what is not. If you want to see a bunch of butt-hurt white guys try to discuss race, there are plenty of threads on Mountain Project where a whole mess of white guys progress from "hey, don't let words hurt you; grow a thicker skin" to "how dare you suggest my off color remark is racist; you're racist for bringing it up!"
I saw the H & M brouhaha and kind of like happy had a face palm moment. The company probably saw the ad as being inclusive for using a little kid of color, but it overlooked a painful reference throughout history that African Americans have suffered through. That racist in and of itself; but insensitive? oh yeah.
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