mountainproject.com goes intersectional (is SuperTopo next?)

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Ballo

Trad climber
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 12, 2018 - 03:49pm PT
The worst part is that it's actually hard to convince people who don't agree with you

Sometimes stating one's opinion is merely to make apparent that not everyone is in agreement. Ever wonder why people erect campaign signs? People are getting all heated just because someone disagrees that Trump is the worst thing since Hitler. I think that says more about the detractor than it does about Trump.

I agree that it's pointless to try to convince someone who is ideological about an issue, but just in case someone is willing to be more even handed I think it's worth hashing it out. WRT Trump, I really don't see why people have such firm opinions about him. He's barely done anything yet. He mostly seems to be at war with his own party, especially old grafters like McConnell.

Who cares, anyway? Is Trump going to make a dent in the national debt? I highly doubt it. It's like hand-wringing over using beverage coasters on the Titanic.
Credit: Ballo
Ballo

Trad climber
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 12, 2018 - 03:51pm PT
Post a trip report

I have never been tempted to. I'll leave those stories for the campfire, assuming anyone gives a sh#t.
NegativeK

climber
Chicago
Jan 13, 2018 - 10:48am PT
I agree that it's pointless to try to convince someone who is ideological about an issue, but just in case someone is willing to be more even handed I think it's worth hashing it out.

I said hard, not pointless. I also laid out why I can't stand the self-riling style of arguments. So, no -- we don't agree at all.
couchmaster

climber
Jan 13, 2018 - 11:10am PT

Thanks Ballo, great looking granite. I think I'll be better to avoid the political talk and whinging about what sensitive shitheads they are on Moutain Project, having recently been kicked of this forum for being a douchbag myself. They let me back in to post a photo of a frog. Anyway, here's a pic of some sh#t rock I caught a pic of Plaidman on. I like the look of your rock better.


http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/3050246/Plaidman-Appreciation-A-Story-Of-Redemption-And-Glory

Best to you!
John M

climber
Jan 13, 2018 - 01:12pm PT
He's barely done anything yet. He mostly seems to be at war with his own party, especially old grafters like McConnell.

I would say that this is a fairly ignorant statement. Perhaps you have not yet been affected, but his attitudes and policy decisions are things that are going to haunt us for some time. He is creating more resentment towards America around the world. that will cause problems over the long haul. His and the republican tax reform will end up hurting the country. I'm sure that is up for debate. The people he has appointed to head departments like the state department and interior are wreaking havoc in those departments. That will cause long term problems. When we aren't represented well overseas, that can cause long term issues. Certainly ones of mistrust. The image of America is tarnished. You may not feel this directly, or you might but not be aware that it is affecting you. If trade deals don't go through because of a tarnished image. If peace treaties aren't signed because of a tarnished image. These things count for the overall well being of America. Everything is interconnected whether you want it to be or not. Or whether you are awake enough to see it or not. It does count.

America has needed change. Trump represented change to many people. Thats how he got elected. But hiring the bully to bring that change is an unwise move. We will and are suffering for it. The comparisons to Hitler and Germany are apt. I am not saying that Trump is a bad as Hitler. I am saying that his bully ways are similar and I am saying that Germany needed change, which allowed Hitler to rise to power. People's need for change overwhelmed their sensibilities. When seeking change, be careful how you bring it about. There is a seriously ugly energy invading America right now and Trump is simply the out picturing of it. What needs to be understood is to what level that energy pervades in each and every one of us. Some certainly have it more then others, but one needs to be careful about how much of that energy one has, before one can help another see their problems or before one can help their country change.

Ballo

Trad climber
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 13, 2018 - 01:47pm PT
couchmaster, that's pretty funny. Reminds me of trying to find solid rock in Oregon (land of no climbing). You put up routes there, you utterly fail to see choss anywhere else.

John M, the US State dept. are a bunch of a-holes. They're the reason why my US passport almost never gets used unless I'm re-entering the "Land of the Free" and you're almost always better off using nearly any other country's passport. Their near east office is packed with Israeli citizens who are always gung-ho for the next sabre-rattle-fest. I have no problem with dual citizens (I'm one, myself) but I think that should disqualify me for working at the US State Dept.

So yeah, they suck and have sucked for longer than I can remember. US agencies complaining that Trump is trying to cut down on DC's employment roles doesn't elicit a tear from me. I mean look at this insanity:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_federal_agencies_in_the_United_States

I'm just old enough to remember the Reagan cuts and how my father, who was a biologist working for a natural survey, was complaining at the time. He probably voted Michael Dukakis or something. However, their funds were largely safe because they came from fishing and hunting licenses which decades later made me wonder why they were all up in arms.

I'm not naïve enough to think that a lot of federal employees are doing something useful, but trying to extricate the few things done well from a bureaucracy from the dead wood is nearly impossible and will cause lots and lots of wailing from EVERYONE. Honestly we ought to consider eliminating whole departments like the USDA which does way more environmental and economic harm than good. They induce farmers to grow in floodplains and use massive amounts of herbicide and fertilizer. They subsidize certain crops which creates waste and increases prices we all have to pay. They promote the use of dikes and dams which has turned a once efficient and prosperous ecological system into a monoculture which is increasingly unproductive and liable to collapse due to fooding, disease, pests, and patent trolling. We end up paying, what, $160B a year for this privilege? I realize there are some biologists working at the USDA which do some good, but that's got to be less than 1% of that budget.

Anyway, like I said before, I don't see any solutions and historically every single empire has collapsed without even trying to find any. Hopefully we can find a way to keep climbing on land which will at that point be seized by our creditors.
John M

climber
Jan 13, 2018 - 02:02pm PT
I have no problem with recognizing that change is needed. My problem is what method we choose to bring about change. We need wise laws. We need balanced departments like the USDA. What we don't need is wholesale destruction. I'm willing to bet that a lot more then 1 percent of the biologist in the USDA want to do good. Just as I know that labor unions are still necessary, though I hated working within one. I still recognized the benefit that many people received. We seem to be at a point where we are willing to throw out the baby with the bath water. That makes me sad, and concerned.
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