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Ballo
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 11, 2018 - 11:09am PT
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For whatever reason, mountainproject.com has attracted a slew of social justice posts especially after the election. Examples include "Not feeling safe" after Trump got elected, making crags safe for "climbers of color" (I kid you not), being surprised that pre-teen girls climb 5.12 as being "sexist", suggesting that women on average don't climb as hard as men as being "sexist", and banning anyone who posts pithy rejoinders (including yours truly). Now I learn they're going to make a "Ladies Forum" which I honestly am for (hopefully a containment board) but there is clearly a need for a forum where people can talk about actual climbing and find partners without having one's skin tone checked.
I honestly wouldn't care if mountainproect.com went full ResertERA except it's the only site left with an active partner-seeking forum.
It's crap like this which is ruining the sport. I don't care if you're a black klansman if you can catch a fall.
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2018 - 11:16am PT
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Which sport ? The sport of posting on an online forum?
I'll provide a bone fide real-life example:
I was at Indian Creek and randomly hooked up with this girl and Swede. The girl was *constantly* going on about social justice while singing Frank Sinatra songs, which she also labeled as "sexist". Everything was about how society was sexist and yet the men hauled nearly all the weight and put up all the routes. Needless to say I avoided her like the plague the next day.
Just to be clear, I honestly don't care about her opinions or even her hypocrisy. However at no point was I free to disagree or have a mind of my own.
Maybe you've been blessed not to be around these poeple.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Jan 11, 2018 - 11:16am PT
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whine much?
Build your own forum ya free loader.
heh
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Jan 11, 2018 - 11:19am PT
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Mountain Reject
use it as you see fit.
I think that at least Bob D'A asked that all FA's that he had added/ climbed be removed from the data base.
I am, as of this week, trying to decide if my times up ?
so Should I add all 25 of my small rock hell zones?
I put The Ravens Crest on the Connecticut page.(Wooster Mt)
I have not listed any routes. ( climbed & recorded )
save the experience for the adventurous, was my thinking. That was 5 years ago and I dont think more than one other party has ever made the ten minute stumble to the base.
I bet if I bolted The things, they would cum
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2018 - 11:22am PT
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The DB I couldn't give two shits about. I posted a couple routes once in a vain (extremely vain) attempt to enforce some sense of standards. I can more easily ignore beta.
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Trashman
Trad climber
SLC
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Jan 11, 2018 - 11:25am PT
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Hah, hard to see why a gem like yerself would need a partner finder.
Someone with years of experience and few enough partners to need to resort to randos on the web has always been a bright red flag in my experience, thanks for another datapoint on the confirmation side.
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2018 - 11:25am PT
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I have plenty of partners at home base, but they don't travel.
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Don Paul
Mountain climber
Denver CO
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Jan 11, 2018 - 11:37am PT
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Tolerance requires patience and maturity. This forum would be better if people didnt get into fights but there is really no way to referee it. It reminds me a lot of rec.climbing.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Jan 11, 2018 - 11:41am PT
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Tolerance requires patience and maturity.
Crap. There goes my idea of a post
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Jan 11, 2018 - 11:42am PT
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Did they look like this?
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2018 - 11:45am PT
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+1... You can do that on mountainproject.com too. They now have a convenient virtue signal button.
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2018 - 11:49am PT
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Tolerance requires patience and maturity. I'm curious to know what you mean by tolerance. Do you mean tolerance of different opinions? What about different ethics?
Unfortunately these neo-progressives have defined tolerance as intolerance of wrongthink and, sadly, shitposting.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Jan 11, 2018 - 11:50am PT
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What your name on MP? It sounds like you didn't get a sympathetic ear over there so you're trying over here.
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2018 - 11:51am PT
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LOL, speak of the devil! YouTube banned this video:
[Click to View YouTube Video]
This is the hell we're in: no jokes allowed
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2018 - 11:52am PT
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Fat Dad I'm more interested in hashing the issue out (since it isn't allowed on mp.com) Save your sympathies.
If I'm the only person who thinks this is an issue, so be it. I'll become a hermit or something.
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Don Paul
Mountain climber
Denver CO
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Jan 11, 2018 - 11:59am PT
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Ballo its a recurring theme here, whether there should be non climbing threads. I think theyre great and dont read the ones that dont interest me. Live and let live. I learned right away to avoid the religion threads where people can get very upset. Its also important to allow people to disagree with you, since those are the ones who can open your mind.
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2018 - 12:06pm PT
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Don Paul, that's how LIFE used to be, too, and IMHO we were better off for it.
It pains me more as a climber since climbers came together for one purpose: climbing! We really didn't care as much about all these other issues. I mean hell, how many hippie stoners did Jim Bridwell climb with? Sometimes I had heated political debates only to climb soon after. Having fun on the rocks made you realize how silly it all was.
But these SJWs are something else. It's starting to feel like 1984. As bad as it is on the internet (YouTube just provided an example above) it PAINS me to see it in climbing!
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clode
Trad climber
portland, or
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Jan 11, 2018 - 12:21pm PT
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Ballo, you said something to the effect that "however, at no point did I have the opportunity to disagree or have a mind of my own".
Dude! This is still 'merica! You could have said anything you wanted! But I doubt that it would have made you feel much better, or improved the situation. Your choice of avoidance was probably the best course of action.
Ballo follow-up, I don't understand what you mean when you say "Not true of the web forum however". Unless it's that you could say something sufficiently insensitive, provocative or politically incorrect, that the web master would censure you. In that sense, I agree that you don't have complete freedom of speech. Yet, in a way, you still do, you can still say whatever you want on the forum, but it just might not make it onto the screen for all to see!
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NegativeK
climber
Chicago
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Jan 11, 2018 - 12:33pm PT
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Do you need a safe space from the meany liberals?
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2018 - 01:49pm PT
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clode, well let's just say what little I did say wasn't met with the same respect and consideration and I found myself biting my tongue, but you are right in the strictest sense. Not true with the web forum however.
NegativeK, funny, I still consider myself a liberal, but not a progressive (not that it should matter). I'm not an advocate of safe spaces or reprimanding people for wrongthink. My problem with SJWs is that they're prigs who wish to do exactly that. I suppose I thought the crag was a safe space where honest opinions and other bullshit were allowed.
Dingus Milktoast, she wasn't Swedish. That guy was alright and allowed me to disagree with his politics.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Jan 11, 2018 - 02:16pm PT
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Fat Dad I'm more interested in hashing the issue out (since it isn't allowed on mp.com) Save your sympathies. Not being able to discuss is one thing; getting banned is something entirely different. People share all kinds of opinion on MP, some of it particularly noxious, without getting banned. That site certainly allows it. Did you say something off color or offensive?
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Jan 11, 2018 - 02:16pm PT
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S J W's?, some of the finest wemon, everyone should try one or twoo. . .
https://youtu.be/_aLEu1lx8bg
they used to be my market target
Now they are looking for
HWB's .Handsome Weeping Boys?& if you skip to 12:16 Sheep Boys!
Im not that, never was
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2018 - 02:18pm PT
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I'm well aware of it's meaning, the history of Communism, the intellectual foundations stemming from Critical Theory, and their centuries-old tactics.
Not sure what the purpose of your post was, however. It appears to be an attempt to dismiss my position without actually challenging it.
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Jan 11, 2018 - 02:18pm PT
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"Which sport ? The sport of posting on an online forum?"...
LOL!!!...
+1...
+2
lets not let decency get in the way of a lifestyle
hahaha!
I wonder if ballo knows the warbler
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2018 - 02:19pm PT
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Did you say something off color or offensive?
Very little that has ever been said has not been offensive at some point by someone.
The answer to your question is yes :)
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Jan 11, 2018 - 02:22pm PT
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Very little that has ever been said has not been offensive at some point by someone.
The answer to your question is yes :) That being the situation, why bring your case over here?
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2018 - 02:23pm PT
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Gnome, LOL I saw a video once of a gaijin trying to get hired as one of these Japanese professional dates. No crying though.
I've been known to make women cry. I didn't know I should have been remunerated for the service.
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2018 - 02:25pm PT
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That being the situation, why bring your case over here?
As per my first reply to your post: to hash the issue out among climbers. Also, I don't care about MY case (isn't this obvious enough?)
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2018 - 02:47pm PT
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kingtut, that's disappointing. I thought this forum was strictly for the master race. I guess I shouldn't post about my plans to egg Susan Wojcicki's house.
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cleo
Social climber
wherever you go, there you are
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Jan 11, 2018 - 02:55pm PT
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Oh I see!
Everything was about how society was sexist and yet the men hauled nearly all the weight and put up all the routes
Well, I feel much better now knowing that men are doing "all" the work therefore society isn't sexist.
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2018 - 03:02pm PT
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Well, I feel much better now knowing that men are doing "all" the work therefore society isn't sexist. Not sure what one has to do with the other, or how you infer either from my story.
My humble suggestion is if you're trying to make the claim that everything is sexist you may not want to do it in a situation where you're nothing but your own priggishness. I'm not suggesting you WOULD do this, but if you did I might formulate the same opinion about you.
It's kinda like complaining that you didn't receive a bailout while you're on benefits. If the point is lost on you I could explain further.
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2018 - 03:10pm PT
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FWIW (in perhaps a vain attempt to avoid the major derailment I see coming) I don't think women nor men have it harder in life, but rather they have it different and don't really understand or appreciate the cross the other sex has to bear. Having said that, bitching about one's cross and how it's the fault of the other sex isn't going to endear me to your cause especially given the hypocritical circumstances in which you chose to mount your pulpit.
Also, I think a lot of the workplace nagging going on has to do with the fact that men and women have lived and worked separately for millions of years and do not cooperate in the same fashion. Men tend to be more competitive and are used to speaking up for themselves while women tend to be more cooperative and sensitive to fee fees.
Susan Wojcicki famously complained that her pet peeve was being interrupted. Avoiding that would result in a very, um, unconventional corporate environment. I think this modern experiment is going to end up making a lot of people, both men and women, miserable.
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2018 - 03:15pm PT
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Are you implying I'm a misogynist?
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Jan 11, 2018 - 03:16pm PT
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Ballo, thanks for sharing that video.
Sweden appears to be way ahead of its time in terms of choosing how to build a society that is better for all, and being open to try new stuff.
One thing I wonder... is it really possible to disentangle a child's independent desires and search for identity, from their early behavior to copy their care-givers to earn their love? These arguments seem to focus on giving children the freedom of choice, and safety to experiment or be whoever they want to be. But it also seems the parents are not recognizing the choices they are making for the kids, or the way they are constraining and shaping the kids' choices, while living in denial about their own role in doing that shaping.
In the end, if we had a more open and accepting society, it is a non-issue as much as whether we as parents raise our kids to like baseball or rock climbing or stamp collecting. Who is to say what is the right way to live life?
I briefly thought there was a logical inconsistency with this openness... what about letting the "boys be boys"? Where is the tolerance for the kids who are more physically rough, breaking stuff, yelling, etc... Who is to say whether these things are natural behaviors that are being repressed, versus imitated behaviors that come from our society immersed in messages of gender stereotypes that a kid will learn even before talking? Kids copy the behaviors and words that they see. So choosing explicitly a path that reduces sexual exploitation of women, that reduces the barriers to men being connected to their emotions, that gives equal career opportunities, etc... these all seem like great things.
If one thinks that "traditional boy" or "traditional girl" behavior is an innate thing (which I'm not comfortable asserting), there is a trade-off in terms of ensuring personal freedom of development/expression vs. freedom for others to not be impacted by it.
Smoking is outlawed in more places, a curtailment of personal freedom, because it impacts the people around the smokers. It is a guideline that prioritizes the benefits to all above the freedom of the individual. In a similar way, fostering a gender-neutral environment is the do-least-harm method of protecting each kid from the limiting choices of boy vs. girl. And by limiting the aggressive aspects of letting "boys be boys" it protects the other kids from being the victims of that. There is a certain irony though, that a system designed to give more freedom of expression to kids without the limitations of boy vs girl, in the end that system curtails personal freedoms when they are at odds with what the society deems acceptable. Isn't this just a flip-flop of values but still prioritizing the average society need ahead of the minority individuals that don't conform to the society? Same dynamic that causes some non-conforming individuals to suffer, just a different equilibrium point.
This was pretty rambling, but I'm just processing my thoughts out loud as I consider ideas I haven't been directly confronted with before.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Jan 11, 2018 - 03:23pm PT
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I suppose I thought the crag was a safe space where honest opinions and other bullshit were allowed.
1) The crag can be an unsafe place. Rocks can get dislodged, leaders can fall out of the sky and land on you, drop gear, any number of things - wear your helmet!
2) If you want the crag to be a place where honest opinions and other bullshit are allowed, why are you complaining about someone's bullsh#t? Does "other bullshit have to be "the right kind" of bullsh#t?
Here's the thing. Times are changing. People evolve. Sure, there has been a vocalization of balls-busted white men all sad over the fact they aren't the sure pick at a job opening that may includes candidates for the position that aren't solely other white men, mad that they can't get away with openly staring at a woman's cleavage or making comments about how she looks in a form-fitting shirt or pair of pants, and even completely flabergasted that even getting a chick drunk and then "having a little fun" is now considered rape. But those guys are as#@&%es. Do you want to be "that" type of guy?
Maybe you do! Then boldly go and let your freak flag fly and worry not that no one wants to climb with you a second day. There will still be SOME kindred souls out there, and you may have to work harder to find them, but in the end, you will be happier, because you can continue lying to yourself with the "nobody can make/take a joke" line.
Seriously - if you considered that Youtube clip "a funny joke," then I don't know what to say.
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2018 - 03:29pm PT
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In the end, if we had a more open and accepting society, it is a non-issue as much as whether we as parents raise our kids to like baseball or rock climbing or stamp collecting. Who is to say what is the right way to live life?
You could say the same thing about shitting your pants or pissing in potted plants.
I'm not trying to be glib, BTW, but you have to admit there are limits. I think the video already crosses those limits.
Think about this: there have been millions of tribes that have come and gone. I don't see any of the surviving ones show any ambivalence as to the roles of the sexes. I could be wrong, but my takeaway from that is that tribes or societies with bad dogmas don't survive, and we now have what is the result of a Darwinian selection process. In other words, even if dogmas were originally chosen for irrational reasons that doesn't mean they are without merit.
If you enter a society where nothing is what it seems that certainly adds a lot of complexity. One has to now ask what one's preferred pronoun is. Personally, I think that's ridiculous.
I have no problem with people choosing their preferred activities (so long they don't expect to be hired based on their wishes and not the demands of the job). Tomboys are nothing new and I've never met a person who is against their existence. However denying your own sex clearly something different and I don't think reaffirming sexual identities to be an inherent evil like some people do.
Near the end of that video he says "Gender confusion is a small price to pay for social progress" which I think was telling. It was if the purpose of whole social experiment was to make the world easier for him personally. I don't think that's a healthy mindset for a parent to have.
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2018 - 03:33pm PT
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) If you want the crag to be a place where honest opinions and other bullshit are allowed, why are you complaining about someone's bullsh#t? Does "other bullshit have to be "the right kind" of bullsh#t?
That's not a fair characterization. She was perfectly entitled to her opinion.
Here's the thing. Times are changing. People evolve. Sure, there has been a vocalization of balls-busted white men all sad over the fact they aren't the sure pick at a job opening that may includes candidates for the position that aren't solely other white men, mad that they can't get away with openly staring at a woman's cleavage or making comments about how she looks in a form-fitting shirt or pair of pants, and even completely flabergasted that even getting a chick drunk and then "having a little fun" is now considered rape. But those guys are as#@&%es. Do you want to be "that" type of guy?
LOL, am I now involved in someone else's fantasy all the sudden? That's quite the narrative. Does it actually describe people you know in real life, or is it from a mythological story involving dragons?
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2018 - 03:35pm PT
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Seriously - if you considered that Youtube clip "a funny joke," then I don't know what to say.
If you're referring to the Nazi pug, then yes, it's hilarious. Do you want to know why it's hilarious?
It's hilarious because Nazis are bad.
What isn't hilarious is he was formally charged with a crime for which he can spend up to a year in jail.
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2018 - 03:53pm PT
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lol nailed this snowflake.
Except I never said that
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 11, 2018 - 04:04pm PT
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I remember one summer day 1973 at the cookie my partner yell up at two women climbing "show me your tits".
The two women took their tops off and climbed the next pitch topless.
Today if you said that they'd scream at you for being sexist call the cops on their phones, you'll go to jail for attempted rape all in one shot.
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2018 - 04:12pm PT
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You might be headed to jail just for that post
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2018 - 04:48pm PT
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Looks like they discovered AFL
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Jan 11, 2018 - 04:52pm PT
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Hey Ballo... and anyone else who thinks we've become way too sensitive... with our idiotic microdefensiveness and the need for "safe spaces" and the redefining of sex assault...
Check out Dave Chappell's new Netflix special.
He just takes a big ol' squat on social justice standards.
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nah000
climber
now/here
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Jan 11, 2018 - 07:43pm PT
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i'm so glad that you [and we] folks have a safe space for you [and us] on the ye ole supertopo forums...
 hooking up with randos and "at no point [were you] free to disagree or have a mind of [your] own"?
we hear you. and we acknowledge your suffering: was it the swede or the chick who held their hand over your mouth and silenced you?
need a place to throw your edgy, new-found, and ultimately from brietbart/the donald/stormfront-derived vocabulary around? [except you actually learned it from jimbo your favorite mechanic, so don't even know the actual root or meaning of it, except that it sounds edgy and cool]: "virtue signalling", "sjw", "soros funded", "intersectional"...
while i can't speak for everyone here at the supertopo forum, know that at least i appreciate the blindingly revealing, and respectfully insightful dialogue that you bring to the table...
been yelling "show me your tits" at random women and getting charged with rape?
we're here for you. sit down... tell us your pronoun and we'll listen to your story.
are you using youtube to show the exact video that you are complaining youtube banned?
we agree and thank you for pulling the wool from over our eyes, as we can see clearly now: for 1984 is, as you have shown, truly upon us.
pissed off about how a family, where one of the parents is intersex and who are all half way across the world, is raising their kid?
as always. we're here to be a witness to the torture that you have both survived... and to the torture that you rise up to face... each. and. every. single. day.
that's because supertopo has become, at least at times... drumroll, please:
the last bastion of the whiny hardman
[and so far as i can tell, at least at this forum there is no need for the bullshIt p.c. "whiny hardwo/man" modifer... as the whiny hardwoman doesn't seem to exist on this forum: the place where there have now been at least a half dozen threads lamenting the feminazi, the sjw, and the heforshe embattled hardmen, and count them... zero threads, at least as far as i am aware, started by the sjws, feminazis or in general whiny hardwomen]
it's ok. put up your feet...
and pull out your dick.
and most importantly speak your mind...
because while you might be ridiculed [keep slaying, Tami]... there is no one here who will be able to put a hand over your mouth...
it's ok. you are home. and you are finally safe.
all thanks be to lord cmac.
;)
[in case you missed it, there are at least a couple lines in there that are serious... i do appreciate cmac creating a place for all of us... and i do appreciate the honestly expressed thoughts of those who feel they are oppressed: regardless of whether they/you are on the sjwish, the middlish or even the naziish side of the spectrum... peace.]
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2018 - 07:56pm PT
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This is some pretty funny stuff. I love the fake quotes and ad homonyms.
Just in case anyone takes your post seriously:
• The ONE example I had of a climber wasn't something I complained bitterly about. It was a mere example of how this priggishness is leaking into the IRL community. By and large my experience with climbers has been wholly positive.
• YouTube did ban the video and I had to find it reposted by someone else who didn't have it banned yet. The question is, why did YouTube ban a Nazi pug (posted by a guy with a hammer and sickle tattoo)?
• I'm not pissed off at anyone. I think that whole situation with the 'hen' children is sad. The parents have the right to raise their kid however they want.
• I'm sure my Stormfront friends will forgive my multi-ethnic background, but just in case they don't I hope their justice will be painless and swift. I hope they forgive me being an ardent anti-fascist, too.
And with that I'm off the internet. The forum is safe....for now.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Jan 11, 2018 - 09:28pm PT
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Which sport ? The sport of posting on an online forum?
First reply and thread is over.
I remember one summer day 1973 at the cookie my partner yell up at two women climbing "show me your tits".
Was your partner 11 years old?
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JoeM
climber
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Jan 11, 2018 - 09:38pm PT
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Ballo: Was she hot though?
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Jan 12, 2018 - 01:08am PT
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troll much?
this guy has 70 posts. all today. whoever he is, he really is passively aggressively showing us his true feelings, which are; Trump rules, women suck.
i know you hate the idea of participation trophies, but you are simply unable to win. so this is for you
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Jan 12, 2018 - 01:22am PT
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I remember one summer day 1973 at the cookie my partner yell up at two women climbing "show me your tits".
The two women took their tops off and climbed the next pitch topless.
Today if you said that they'd scream at you for being sexist call the cops on their phones, you'll go to jail for attempted rape all in one shot. so when you yelled that were there hundreds of other folks around with cameras they could pull out of their pockets that could video the entire scene at 4K and then post it within seconds for the entire world (including the young girls' parents) to see on their phones or their 52" screens.
it's a different world but those things still happen. you just don't hear about it any more cause, well you're old and those are young folks' pursuits.
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 12, 2018 - 11:16am PT
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Ballo: Was she hot though?
I honestly don't remember. Something about the whole experience colored my memory. I only remembered the incident due to the first thread response.
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 12, 2018 - 11:21am PT
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And you come here with this? This place is the home base of untethered politard axe-grinding, lol!
So what you're saying is I came to the right place.
I do notice a lot of generational differences. I was having an IRL conversation recently about the whole Bear's Ears monument brouhaha. I noted how the divide between those for and against generally fell generationally between those under and over 30.
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 12, 2018 - 11:27am PT
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Trump rules, women suck.
Wrong on both counts, but I do find it amusing how seriously some people take politics. I see it akin to a minnow trying to push the Titanic off course.
I'm honestly not pro-Trump, but I don't buy the anti-Trump hysteria. It's all style. Bush and Obama were mirror images of one another policy-wise, but for some reason people get pissed off when I point this out. Trump hasn't hardly done anything except try to reduce federal employment and pass a tax bill which got rid of the state income tax deduction.
Since the JFK assassination the policies of each President has been almost indistinguishable. The service sector runs the government, the lobbyists write the law, the media stirs sh#t and winds you people up, and the politicians just do what they're told.
Most of the anti-Trump hysteria looks like this to me:
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 12, 2018 - 12:32pm PT
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Says the man replying, lol
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couchmaster
climber
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Jan 12, 2018 - 12:42pm PT
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I want to see a picture of you on a climb before I respond Ballo. BTW, nice troll. :-)
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jan 12, 2018 - 12:58pm PT
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^^^ Look at Ballo's posting history. Nuff said.
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 12, 2018 - 01:11pm PT
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couchmaster, Don't have any action shots handy and don't really do selfies, but here's a summit shot after doing something in the Patricia Bowl
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 12, 2018 - 01:13pm PT
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Nuff said.
You guys are hilarious. If you have a point feel free to make it. This is the forum equivalent to "your face"
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Don Paul
Mountain climber
Denver CO
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Jan 12, 2018 - 01:43pm PT
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Welcome to the forum Ballo, I was once thought to be a troll also. Post a trip report about that alpine route and youll be the next supertopo idol.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Jan 12, 2018 - 02:12pm PT
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No one gives AF what you think. Let that sink in. Dude, he's right. Not that you care. Sadly, you seem to thrive on negative attention. Since you do appear to have more productive outlets--climbing--I suggest your time and energy is better devoted to that.
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Jan 12, 2018 - 02:50pm PT
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I'm honestly not pro-Trump, but I don't buy the anti-Trump hysteria. It's all style. Bush and Obama were mirror images of one another policy-wise, but for some reason people get pissed off when I point this out. That's because it's stupid beyond ridicule. They may have had a few coincidental similarities but that's about it. They were miles apart on most stuff.
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NegativeK
climber
Chicago
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Jan 12, 2018 - 03:16pm PT
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This is some pretty funny stuff. I love the fake quotes and ad homonyms.
I hope you actually do. There's going to be f*#k all that's useful.
There're roughly two types of arguments: one to convince other people, and one to rile up people who already agree with you. The latter is fairly lazy and incredibly common on the internet, both with as#@&%es and people I agree with. Your starting post was thoroughly in the riling style, which means basically nobody who disagrees with you is going to spend time actually debating you -- it's just going to be a bunch of pigs rolling in sh#t.
You've managed to turn an entire thread into a Trump press conference, or the vast majority of Facebook politics posts. The worst part is that it's actually hard to convince people who don't agree with you, so most conversations end up as pigs in sh#t.
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Alexey
climber
San Jose, CA
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Jan 12, 2018 - 03:17pm PT
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Ballo, Post a trip report about that alpine route and youll be the next supertopo idol.
or post that your favorite route is "Sons from Yesterday"
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 12, 2018 - 03:49pm PT
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The worst part is that it's actually hard to convince people who don't agree with you
Sometimes stating one's opinion is merely to make apparent that not everyone is in agreement. Ever wonder why people erect campaign signs? People are getting all heated just because someone disagrees that Trump is the worst thing since Hitler. I think that says more about the detractor than it does about Trump.
I agree that it's pointless to try to convince someone who is ideological about an issue, but just in case someone is willing to be more even handed I think it's worth hashing it out. WRT Trump, I really don't see why people have such firm opinions about him. He's barely done anything yet. He mostly seems to be at war with his own party, especially old grafters like McConnell.
Who cares, anyway? Is Trump going to make a dent in the national debt? I highly doubt it. It's like hand-wringing over using beverage coasters on the Titanic.
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 12, 2018 - 03:51pm PT
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Post a trip report
I have never been tempted to. I'll leave those stories for the campfire, assuming anyone gives a sh#t.
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NegativeK
climber
Chicago
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Jan 13, 2018 - 10:48am PT
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I agree that it's pointless to try to convince someone who is ideological about an issue, but just in case someone is willing to be more even handed I think it's worth hashing it out.
I said hard, not pointless. I also laid out why I can't stand the self-riling style of arguments. So, no -- we don't agree at all.
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John M
climber
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Jan 13, 2018 - 01:12pm PT
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He's barely done anything yet. He mostly seems to be at war with his own party, especially old grafters like McConnell.
I would say that this is a fairly ignorant statement. Perhaps you have not yet been affected, but his attitudes and policy decisions are things that are going to haunt us for some time. He is creating more resentment towards America around the world. that will cause problems over the long haul. His and the republican tax reform will end up hurting the country. I'm sure that is up for debate. The people he has appointed to head departments like the state department and interior are wreaking havoc in those departments. That will cause long term problems. When we aren't represented well overseas, that can cause long term issues. Certainly ones of mistrust. The image of America is tarnished. You may not feel this directly, or you might but not be aware that it is affecting you. If trade deals don't go through because of a tarnished image. If peace treaties aren't signed because of a tarnished image. These things count for the overall well being of America. Everything is interconnected whether you want it to be or not. Or whether you are awake enough to see it or not. It does count.
America has needed change. Trump represented change to many people. Thats how he got elected. But hiring the bully to bring that change is an unwise move. We will and are suffering for it. The comparisons to Hitler and Germany are apt. I am not saying that Trump is a bad as Hitler. I am saying that his bully ways are similar and I am saying that Germany needed change, which allowed Hitler to rise to power. People's need for change overwhelmed their sensibilities. When seeking change, be careful how you bring it about. There is a seriously ugly energy invading America right now and Trump is simply the out picturing of it. What needs to be understood is to what level that energy pervades in each and every one of us. Some certainly have it more then others, but one needs to be careful about how much of that energy one has, before one can help another see their problems or before one can help their country change.
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 13, 2018 - 01:47pm PT
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couchmaster, that's pretty funny. Reminds me of trying to find solid rock in Oregon (land of no climbing). You put up routes there, you utterly fail to see choss anywhere else.
John M, the US State dept. are a bunch of a-holes. They're the reason why my US passport almost never gets used unless I'm re-entering the "Land of the Free" and you're almost always better off using nearly any other country's passport. Their near east office is packed with Israeli citizens who are always gung-ho for the next sabre-rattle-fest. I have no problem with dual citizens (I'm one, myself) but I think that should disqualify me for working at the US State Dept.
So yeah, they suck and have sucked for longer than I can remember. US agencies complaining that Trump is trying to cut down on DC's employment roles doesn't elicit a tear from me. I mean look at this insanity:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_federal_agencies_in_the_United_States
I'm just old enough to remember the Reagan cuts and how my father, who was a biologist working for a natural survey, was complaining at the time. He probably voted Michael Dukakis or something. However, their funds were largely safe because they came from fishing and hunting licenses which decades later made me wonder why they were all up in arms.
I'm not naïve enough to think that a lot of federal employees are doing something useful, but trying to extricate the few things done well from a bureaucracy from the dead wood is nearly impossible and will cause lots and lots of wailing from EVERYONE. Honestly we ought to consider eliminating whole departments like the USDA which does way more environmental and economic harm than good. They induce farmers to grow in floodplains and use massive amounts of herbicide and fertilizer. They subsidize certain crops which creates waste and increases prices we all have to pay. They promote the use of dikes and dams which has turned a once efficient and prosperous ecological system into a monoculture which is increasingly unproductive and liable to collapse due to fooding, disease, pests, and patent trolling. We end up paying, what, $160B a year for this privilege? I realize there are some biologists working at the USDA which do some good, but that's got to be less than 1% of that budget.
Anyway, like I said before, I don't see any solutions and historically every single empire has collapsed without even trying to find any. Hopefully we can find a way to keep climbing on land which will at that point be seized by our creditors.
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John M
climber
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Jan 13, 2018 - 02:02pm PT
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I have no problem with recognizing that change is needed. My problem is what method we choose to bring about change. We need wise laws. We need balanced departments like the USDA. What we don't need is wholesale destruction. I'm willing to bet that a lot more then 1 percent of the biologist in the USDA want to do good. Just as I know that labor unions are still necessary, though I hated working within one. I still recognized the benefit that many people received. We seem to be at a point where we are willing to throw out the baby with the bath water. That makes me sad, and concerned.
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| Messages 1 - 71 of total 71 in this topic |
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