Bicycles to be allowed in the Wilderness?!

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Messages 221 - 240 of total 311 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Ballo

Trad climber
Jan 11, 2018 - 06:39pm PT
Wilderness designation is primarily about preservation, not recreation.

Then why not ban hiking, too?
Risk

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
Jan 11, 2018 - 06:45pm PT
Modest use of wheeled conveyance, no big deal. Full blown Mt. Biking, big deal. It's like the 2nd amendment allowing tanks, strykers or howitzer cannons for personal use in a city. I'm confident that if McClintock's bill get's enacted, the battle in the courts would prolong implementation for decades. The Rule Making procedure alone would take a decade at least for each managing agency, let alone individual areas. Yosemite has had bikes prohibited on all trails (Wilderness or not) forever. Not gonna change.

Mt. Biker's in favor of Trump/McClintock and friends, don't get excited. Your proposal would be on hold to open wilderness trails to you until at least 2028 - 2038 while America sorts through the details.
Chewybacca

Trad climber
Kelly Morgan, Whitefish MT
Jan 11, 2018 - 06:46pm PT
"Why not ban hiking too"

Because that is politically unrealistic.

What do you think wilderness designation means?
Ballo

Trad climber
Jan 11, 2018 - 06:56pm PT
What do you think wilderness designation means?

That question depends highly on the area and the people who pushed for the designation for that area.

I know from experience that the mtbike prohibition made the issue highly contentious for the proposed Lake Waldo Wilderness designation. Ultimately, the reason it failed was largely due to mtbikers.

I agree that changing the interpretation or wording of the law isn't going to allow mtbikers to go wherever they want. Hopefully it will allow it for areas where it makes sense. There are a lot of wilderness areas which were declared whole cloth without considering how the lands had been used nor how necessary the wilderness protection was.

I'm an environmentalist believe it or not, but I am because the environment benefits humanity not because I bow to some God of environmentalism. I would love for there to be a national or state push to improve the way water is used in this country (by making a market for it), and to allow salmon runs to return. I don't see mtbikes causing much harm to the environment in a lot of these wilderness areas, and that includes some areas in Yosemite.
Mike.

climber
Jan 11, 2018 - 08:07pm PT
Ken, the fact is you do not possess the universal knowledge you think you do, regardless of what you want to "testify." Good luck.
Risk

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
Jan 11, 2018 - 09:19pm PT
I don't see mtbikes causing much harm to the environment in a lot of these wilderness areas, and that includes some areas in Yosemite.

Your opinion noted. As noted upthread, except for old roads or fire breaks, YNP will remain "mtbikes" free, president shithole be damned!
F

climber
away from the ground
Jan 11, 2018 - 10:42pm PT
There is no real law enforcement in true wilderness.
Do what you want, respect other users, f*#k the tool.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 11, 2018 - 10:58pm PT
Ken, the fact is you do not possess the universal knowledge you think you do, regardless of what you want to "testify." Good luck.

I know that I have spend a lot of years working in wilderness areas, talking to the land managers, and patrolling as a backcountry ranger.

What defines your expertise, since you bring it up? Do you have any credibility at all, or are you just another tweeker?
Mike.

climber
Jan 12, 2018 - 06:34am PT
I know that I have spend a lot of years working in wilderness areas, talking to the land managers, and patrolling as a backcountry ranger.

Then why didn't you simply say that, instead of asserting that you have some universal knowledge about cycling and wilderness? Thank you for your tacit admission that you do not.


What defines your expertise, since you bring it up? Do you have any credibility at all, or are you just another tweeker?

Resorts to name calling and ad homonym attack in lieu of an argument. Vivid colors, Ken! Do you know what a tweeker is? I don't take stimulant drugs, so, no, I'm not one. If you didn't have your head so inexorably far up your a$s, you would know something about my accomplishments on rock, dirt and pavement. But I don't give one tiny sh#t about making your grade, so just go ahead and continue living in your fantasy world where ST tweekers conspire against the noble and righteous wilderness defenders from the evil full-face marauders mowing down throngs of peaceful innocents in the BC.
Roughster

Sport climber
Vacaville, CA
Jan 12, 2018 - 09:01am PT
Shamelessly stolen from a similar thread on a different activity forum I frequent:

The muddled thinking in this thread is indicative of why we keep spinning our wheels. Half of you are just scared of change, most have completely unrealistic perceptions of what wilderness is, hardly any realize that some are using Wilderness commercially, and have steadily locked out other users by a variety of means over the years.

I realize most of you will never have an opportunity to actually observe Wilderness being used on a daily basis, but if you did you would be appalled that for a few heavy impact users it is business as usual, while the rest of us light users are locked out so it can continue. You are being screwed as you mouth your reverent words about the fantasy of pristine wilderness. The only pristine wilderness is the stuff that is so rough and remote it can't yet be exploited commercially.

The more recreational users in Wilderness the more protected it will be, and the more secure. So it's time to wake up... unused Wilderness can be commercialized with the stroke of a pen if necessary. Get as many recreational users out there as possible, maybe it will shine some more light on what is really going on.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jan 12, 2018 - 09:28pm PT
In the real wilderness, you arenít top predator.
Dingus Milktoast

Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
Jan 13, 2018 - 06:22am PT
Some people I know and respect, and some friends too! ;)

think bikes in the wilderness is a good thing. I'm not convinced by the arguments presented in favor, but I still love my bike peeps anyway.

I don't think it's a good idea. And yes I have used mtn bikes to good effect for long approaches, so I can readily see the utility. But there is no way mtn bikers will self-restrict to trails. One bike track across a pristine meadow would take years to dissolve. Points that footprints do as well are lost on me, sorry.

DMT
Ballo

Trad climber
Jan 13, 2018 - 02:28pm PT
One bike track across a pristine meadow would take years to dissolve. Points that footprints do as well are lost on me, sorry.

Do you think that mtbikers stray off the trail more than hikers do? I certainly don't think so.

The whole hikers vs bikers thing is a bit lost on me. They both can create poot trails, so why give one group more scrutiny than the other?

There was this, I don't know what to call him...I guess fat idiot, who decided to make a name for himself making his own mtbike trail in USFS land. This wasn't wilerness or anything, but land which every few decades gets clear cut. Hoo boy did he get in trouble! The USFS basically told him to undo his trail or face major felony charges.

I think the concern over mtbikers making their own trails in wilderness is overblown. I see hikers do it all the time, however. Maybe a shoot-on-sight policy for those who stray off the trail would abate your concerns.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Jan 13, 2018 - 02:38pm PT
Ballo... Interesting that the USFS went after that MTB. guy...Around here the motor heads go off trail often creating new trails , trashing resources and using single track reserved for Mtb. use ...Never hear of the moto heads getting popped...I think the MTB crowds are the red headed step child of Forest Service user groups...Follow the money ... The ATV crowd has more money and influence than the mtb. crowd...
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jan 13, 2018 - 04:46pm PT
There is no real law enforcement in true wilderness.
Do what you want, respect other users, f*#k the tool.

That's a great motto. Not.

Dingus Milktoast

Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
Jan 13, 2018 - 05:20pm PT
Do you think that mtbikers stray off the trail more than hikers do?

Mtn bikes don't stray off trail at all in wilderness areas, presently. I'd like to keep it that way.

DMT
applejax

climber
Jan 13, 2018 - 09:36pm PT
I donate to sustainable trails coalition because IMBA - Intl mtb assn is worthless. Stc supports local land managers having the ability to implement original intent of the wildnerness act. It was never intended to ban bicycles. The authors confirmed that. Fanatics protecting their turf have been rabid about banning trail use.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 13, 2018 - 09:42pm PT
Then why didn't you simply say that, instead of asserting that you have some universal knowledge about cycling and wilderness? Thank you for your tacit admission that you do not.

I'm sorry that this has devolved into personal attacks. I have posted what I do many times on these threads, and I don't think anyone cares to read it more than once. BTW, if you want to have a civil conversation, don't start with your own attacks, because it's very predictable what will be coming your direction.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 13, 2018 - 09:45pm PT
Bicycles are not part of the natural world. People are. Even horses, goats, llamas and like pack animals. Dogs.

But I never dream of a beautiful sunset over bike handles. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen that type of "nature" photography (which will be sure to bring them out!)
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 13, 2018 - 09:47pm PT
Stc supports local land managers having the ability to implement original inent of the wildnerness act. It was never intended to ban bicycles.

Mtn bikes didn't exist. But similar mechanical devices did...the wheelbarrow. Banned.
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