Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
JLP
Social climber
The internet
|
|
|
Dec 15, 2017 - 03:48pm PT
|
In other words, those 5.8 and 5.9 routes were never put up for a specific level of climber. They were done by a specific level of climber. What I saw personally and how I interpreted it is that the old school of climbing is to not fall.
So now you get these guys who can be just scary bold from a career of vast repetition, free soloing and just general hours logged on those stupid old dad trad routes. However - without much falling - up to maybe 5.11c or somesuch - as high as that style will get a guy.
Then they melt into scared little chickens one letter grade higher. So now these same guys are out there setting routes with bolts like 3 ft apart on 12b, the hardest they'll ever do with their style, because actually taking some falls scares the heck out of them.
Modern climber who knows the GriGri well, with some confidence at the grade, comes in and laughs at that 12b - compared to a real 12b bolted in a modern sport area - where you might be doing some for-real flying.
|
|
Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 15, 2017 - 03:51pm PT
|
Really well said, Phyl. That gets to the heart of the issue here, I think. When I started climbing and for a long time after, a "sport" route was a run-out apron slab or JT dance. There were only a few closely bolted 10's and such, but mostly not. Anything less than 10, and you had to have yer sh*t together. As a chicken-based climber life form, I've tended to avoid the Meadows because of all the scary run-outs. Just didn't have the stomach for them. I'd lead 5.9 and above cracks all day, but forty feet to that next bolt? Are you kidding me?
BAd
|
|
clarkolator
climber
|
|
|
Dec 15, 2017 - 03:56pm PT
|
Beautifully concise, phylp. I'll stow that away for my chronologically disadvantaged friends...
|
|
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
|
Dec 15, 2017 - 04:38pm PT
|
Good points Phyl. Redardless the intent of the FA, the fact remains that they do not own the route and sensible adjustments do not necessairly require their Imprimatur. Rock climbing should be exciting but there is no good reason that sport climbs, especially those within the range of new climbers, should have dire consequences if one falls.
Look folks, if you think I am being a wussy, I can direct you to some alpine climbs where real danger is a part of the game. Those that choose to go there are well aware of and willing to take the risks. People jumping on a 5.8 sport climb might expect an adrenalin rush but never do they, or should they, think that a life threatening injury is possible.
|
|
neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
|
|
|
Dec 15, 2017 - 04:48pm PT
|
hey there say, Bryan Adams...
whewww, thank you SO VERY much for the update...
so very glad she is recovering well...
thank you! for letting us know, and, for
sharing more about her and her climbing...
|
|
guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
|
|
|
Dec 15, 2017 - 05:02pm PT
|
Bryan Adams...... thank you for the up date. Good to know she is holding her own, she might not be able to recall anything about that day.
I crashed a go-kart at 75mph, my helmet saved my brain but I was in a coma for a day. I have zero recall of the crash except for when the medic had my visor up and was asking me "what day is it"
Good responses form all... esp Phylp
|
|
JLP
Social climber
The internet
|
|
|
Dec 15, 2017 - 05:03pm PT
|
Another thought on the injured - sounds like a pretty severe and acute head injury for someone wearing a helmet - curious.
Seems to me climbing helmets are overly designed for rockfall from above impact, much less so for a lead climber's more likely side front or rear impact.
My read of Viren's post seems to suggest back of head, helmet may have not actually been doing much.
Seems relevant.
vvvv - yeah - but I think even a bicycle helmet is generally superior to a climbing helmet for side front and rear impact, nobody is doing 200mph. Sure - many variables. I think it would be something interesting to find out more about here.
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
|
Dec 15, 2017 - 05:14pm PT
|
^^^^ Climbing helmets ain't exactly Formula 1 racing helmets.
|
|
Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
|
|
|
Dec 15, 2017 - 05:33pm PT
|
As do we all, I hope the climber recovers completely. My brother had a very serious bicycle racing accident that involved head trauma; recovery was very long and not complete. He tells me things taste different, his personality changed, he had suicidal thoughts, etc. All these things are very common with head trauma. There's an excellent website written by the former Formula 1 doctor Gary Hartstein, a specialist in head trauma, that is well worth a look; there are some really interesting discussions of head trauma, evaluation, and recovery. https://formerf1doc.wordpress.com/
As a pretty cheesy and inept climber I remember vividly my first sport climb lead, when I realized that I was no longer top roped and even after I clipped the second bolt I could still hit the ground and, in fact, I realized I had better clip that second bolt and not be stupid. It made things much more serious and changed my perspective greatly.
|
|
stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
|
|
|
Dec 15, 2017 - 05:48pm PT
|
It's a tough call on what to do about some of the older, sparsely bolted easier climbs at sport areas. A good example is Barbecue the Pope at Smith. It's a solid 10b and the first clip is quite a ways off the ground. You'd better feel pretty solid to try it without a stick clip. I don't think Brooke purposely made it dangerous, but it probably seems that way to gym climbers. None the less, hundreds have climbed it without getting hurt, so I'm not sure this would fall into the category of deserving to get fixed.
As for soft catches, they really are only useful in two cases, severely overhanging sport routes well off the deck, and slightly past vertical routes with ledges. And in the second case, you'd better really know what you're doing. Otherwise, not even a good idea to try.
Best wishes to the climber for a full recovery.
|
|
rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
|
|
|
Dec 15, 2017 - 06:06pm PT
|
And go-karts are for kids....
|
|
Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
|
|
|
Dec 15, 2017 - 06:24pm PT
|
Here's an interesting video from Dr. Hartstein, mentioned above, on concussion; worth a watch IMHO.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
|
Dec 15, 2017 - 06:28pm PT
|
'Soft catches'? Are we talking about no anchor AND no pro catches?*
I gots a good three of them. Kinda like that old baseball joke...
"I got it, I got it!"
I forget the punch line.
*Like up on a mountain, yeah?
|
|
limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
|
|
|
Dec 15, 2017 - 06:54pm PT
|
Three good points on this thread worth paraphrasing:
1. It's dumb to have groundfall potential at the third bolt of a beginner route in a sport climbing area with bolted cracks and tightly bolted hard routes.
2. First ascentionists who put up runout moderates and tightly bolted routes near their limit are not bold, they're lazy and/or cheap. Nothing to preserve there.
3. Don't tell beginners about soft catches, stopping the fall ASAP is more important, they'll figure out the fine details later.
|
|
henny
Social climber
The Past
|
|
|
Dec 15, 2017 - 07:20pm PT
|
Thanks Marty. Good post.
|
|
phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
|
|
|
Dec 15, 2017 - 07:27pm PT
|
Great post, Marty.
|
|
aldude
climber
Monument Manor
|
|
|
Dec 15, 2017 - 07:39pm PT
|
^^^ +1
|
|
ionlyski
Trad climber
Polebridge, Montana
|
|
|
Dec 15, 2017 - 07:47pm PT
|
Marty for President. Nuff said.
And Limpincrab point #3
|
|
Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 15, 2017 - 08:33pm PT
|
What Marty said.
BAd
|
|
steve s
Trad climber
eldo
|
|
|
Dec 15, 2017 - 09:00pm PT
|
Thanks for posting Marty. I hope the climber recovers. Peace.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!