Accident in the Owen's Gorge yesterday

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
This thread has been locked
Messages 21 - 40 of total 178 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
hailman

Trad climber
Sacramento
Dec 12, 2017 - 08:03pm PT
I haven't seen a belayer get dragged through the sand...but you can often spot a big gang of climbers toproping Double Cross from a great distance. Must be more comfy to belay from those boulders/slabs way back from the base.

Going over a detailed plan with your belayer before launching up a climb can be such a game changer. Especially when the lead climber might be much more experienced than the belayer. Things like how much slack to have out, where the route crux is, routefinding, whether or not you want to be lowered at the top of the pitch, etc.

Climbed 'The Eye' with a new acquaintance a few weeks ago and we decided to solo up to that first ledge to cut down on rope stretch. The route is 5.3 but those ledges hurt all the same if you blow it. Talking a decision like this over with your partner can help very much!

All the best to the fallen climber in the days ahead.
Kalimon

Social climber
Ridgway, CO
Dec 12, 2017 - 08:47pm PT
I hope the unfortunate woman is O.K.
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Dec 12, 2017 - 09:32pm PT
hey there say, all... late, seeing this...

prayers for the gal to be okay...
so thankful, for her, too, that many were on hand to help her...
Bad Climber

Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 13, 2017 - 06:37am PT
Hey, zardoz:

You should know more about this device. It is NOT for this--

Ah, the Ohm. A new device to actually do the belaying instead of the incompetent belayer you hook up with.

My wife has had my back for about three decades on every type of terrain--so, no, definitely not incompetent. If you researched the device or bothered to read what I said about it, you'd understand it's to help compensate for big differences in weight between leader and belayer. I out-weigh my wife by about EIGHTY POUNDS. That means if I take a big fall, she can get yanked up into the first piece and/or I can possibly deck even with the best of all belays. And, no, you can't always find an anchor for the belayer--actually the norm for the Gorge. Check out the manufacturer's videos--very instructive. Knowledge is better than ignorance, yo.

BAd
ruppell

climber
Dec 13, 2017 - 07:01am PT
And, no, you can't always find an anchor for the belayer--actually the norm for the Gorge

I have no problem with new tech and if it helps you and the wife feel better about a big catch, use it. That line above however is not true. Just clip her to two 40lb dogs or one 80lb dog. Name one day in the Gorge that that's not possible. lol
mooch

Trad climber
Tribal Base Camp (Kernville Annex)
Dec 13, 2017 - 07:32am PT
Soft catch, brah - leave a generous loop of slack - it seems to be what is being taught in several gyms these days. I don't like it, and it's wrong.

A loop of slack is not at all what a soft catch is about. It's about managing slack and moving your body by hopping, stepping back, walking into, or whatever needs to be done depending on fall distance and weight differences between climber and belayer - to soften the impact while minimizing the fall distance, doesn't matter how far off the deck or overhung it is.

Bingo, JLP! Additionally, climbers can get distracted in a large social setting. The Great Wall Of China sees hoards every weekend, making it a "One big happy family" setting. On many occasions have I witnessed the belayer "jaw jacking" and taking their attention off the climber. I, for one, do enjoy a good time with fellow climbers. But once my partner places foot to stone and casts off, my full attention is on them. I'm not pointing at this particular situation but simply expressing my point of view from previous experiences.
Viren Perumal

Trad climber
Toyota Motorhome....
Dec 13, 2017 - 08:21am PT
Hi all I just wanted to chime in and Dean thanks for sharing my FB post. I was not trying to be secretive but at the same time not point fingers and blame on the party involved as they probably already feel terrible. It was my attempt to be gentle but at the same time informative (often something I don't see on this forum which is why I usually don't get on this site :)

Dan McD. retrofitted the route on Monday, it was one that used to require a very attentive belay to prevent a ground fall from bolt 3.

I have been in contact with the climbers family. She is still in an induced coma in the ICU but her vitals have stabilized and they were able to reduce the ICP.

Her helmet probably saved her life and its a good reminder to me to always wear mine.

VP
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Dec 13, 2017 - 08:42am PT
Viren.... no need to "be gentle" around here... I think most of us are old crustys who will call out "S" when we see it. Thank you for the help you rendered to get this climber packed out asap.

I think its pretty quick on the draw to go and retro the root.

Is this going to be the "New Way"?

Are we going to dumb down every climb in the ORG and elsewhere?

Maybe time for a new thread to discuss.

I hope the climber continues to recover.

GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Dec 13, 2017 - 11:25am PT
Thanks Viren for helping out and the post, getting my WFR was well worth the investment.
BruceHildenbrand

Social climber
Mountain View/Boulder
Dec 13, 2017 - 12:25pm PT
BITD on some of the more runout slab routes on the Apron and at the Royal Arches area we used to use the technigue of a 'running belay' to avoid a big fall. This meant that the belayer on the ground was prepared to run down the hill if the leader came off. It's amazing how much slack you can take up in a very short period of time.
ionlyski

Trad climber
Polebridge, Montana
Dec 13, 2017 - 01:05pm PT
A loop of slack is not at all what a soft catch is about. It's about managing slack and moving your body by hopping, stepping back, walking into, or whatever needs to be done depending on fall distance and weight differences between climber and belayer - to soften the impact while minimizing the fall distance, doesn't matter how far off the deck or overhung it is.

You know, I don't really want my belayer dancing around the strewn rocks while looking up at me with drool ready to do the boogie woogie. Just stay tied in, manage the slack and stop the rope if I fall. It's not going to be a big arching whipper anyway. I'll take a little jarring, knowing you're not over complicating the process, just happy I abruptly stopped.

Arne
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Dec 13, 2017 - 03:18pm PT
thank you Arnie!
Bad Climber

Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 14, 2017 - 07:25am PT
Found some good video on falling, slack, soft catch, etc. This gets into the math and science of it in a very accessible way, and the couple doing the video is super charming. The short of it is that slack doesn't help a lot, but a well-timed jump can be very helpful. I've seen several of the videos in the series. Good stuff!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0GGsBgPic4&index=8&list=PL5FEOhiQGSo_1vzKuUKpckn-_Klg5zuqE

Timing the jump is critical. I suspect it goes wrong a lot in the real world.

BAd
jeff constine

Trad climber
Ao Namao
Dec 14, 2017 - 08:27am PT
The OP should go rebolt it, nuff said. This thread is DEAD.
mike a.

Sport climber
ca
Dec 14, 2017 - 08:29am PT
Morning Bad, thanks for sharing that video with us, real great stuff!!! helps to crunch the numbers and give people an idea on belaying in question. Those climbers did a super awesome job on that info on that video, be safe out there happy climbing Mike A.
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Dec 14, 2017 - 08:56am PT
Timing the jump is critical. I suspect it goes wrong a lot in the real world.
Yes it does. The video shows 2 people of similar weight. If the belayer is much lighter than the climber and the fall a long one, the jump might actually better be a squat while stepping back or they'll get slammed harder into the first piece of gear while the leader takes a longer fall. I think what to do changes with every partner and climb and takes some experience to learn.

I saw math equations in that video - cute and smart girl, knows how to give a safe belay too - just my type.

Unsafe bolting - nobody puts up with that old dad ego bolting sh!t in modern climbing areas. You'll be called out and your work will be rapidly modified. Nobody will care about your claimed FA rights. Nobody will want to see anymore of your work done in that area until your attitude changes.
Bad Climber

Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 14, 2017 - 09:19am PT
JLP: Actually, the guy outweighs the woman by about 20kg. They've actually put out a video on light belayers and heavy leaders, and they'll be putting out a video on the Ohm device, too. I'm really interested to see their findings. So far, the Ohm seems like a good idea for my wife and me since I outweigh her by about 35kg. Harder catch for me, but If decking is a possibility, I'm okay with that. Also, the couple in the video make it very clear that the info re. slack, soft catches, etc. are for sport climbing--not trad. And, of course, we all must take into account ledges and other features.

BAd
jeff constine

Trad climber
Ao Namao
Dec 14, 2017 - 09:21am PT
Just like the peep's that talk about chopping bolts, Just DO IT or STFU. If Bad was such a custodian for climbing he would of just fixed it done deal. The original post should of been, There was an accident at the Gorge caused by bolts placed in the wrong position for protecting against ground fall. I went and rebolted so you can't hit the ground anymore. That would be proud.
mooch

Trad climber
Tribal Base Camp (Riverkern Annex)
Dec 14, 2017 - 10:19am PT
Jebus......he was an abused child. He needs therapy and the tender promise of love from Richard Simmons.
jeff constine

Trad climber
Ao Namao
Dec 14, 2017 - 10:22am PT
Mooch was a child abuser who slept with Roman Polanski's abused minors ;) lol
Messages 21 - 40 of total 178 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
 
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks


Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Recent Route Beta