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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Dec 28, 2017 - 12:26pm PT
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synonyms: force, compulsion, constraint, duress, oppression, enforcement, harassment, intimidation, threats, arm-twisting, pressure
you do understand the definition of "synonym," don't you Warbler?
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Dec 28, 2017 - 12:27pm PT
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What was the "lesson" you would like us to take away from that clip and your comment? I'd be very interested to have you explain it.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Dec 28, 2017 - 01:07pm PT
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I get along with most everyone I meet, but I can tell you that if I encounter a person who is, to use a broad term, difficult, I adjust myself accordingly.
That video clip was mildly triggering to me. I found myself tensing up, and recalling times in my life where I had to be able to defend myself against attack. Specifically, it reminded me of a time when I was walking my dog Teddy on 21st Street between 7th and 8th Avenues in NYC.
It was trash collection day, so there were bags at curbside and the sidewalk was thinner than usual. A man, nicely dressed in a casually professional way, was approaching. I moved myself and Teddy toward the right, assuming the man would also edge over to his right, and though the space would be tight, we'd pass without incident. Like would be standard NYC behavior.....
For some reason, that wasn't the way that man wanted it to go down. He waited until just a few steps away, moved to be directly in front of me, and stopped. There was probably less than two feet between us - not enough time for me to do anything except wait for his next action. Or cower, I suppose.
He stood there, blocking my way, looking at me in a way I would describe as "controlled calmness." The look a person who is looking for a fight has - I am sure most men have seen it out of someone in their lives.
I, being the type I am, which is to say - I don't back down - returned the look with whatever bravado I could muster and said "There is enough room for both of us. I moved over, and moved my dog over to the right. You have your right side to pass by."
He looked at me as if he expected me to step into the trash bags on the side.
I said "Look - I moved. Now YOU move." And I began to go forward, which was going to involve me pushing him bodily out of my way.
He stepped forward, nearly nose to nose with me, and in that calm, quiet voice, stated. "I could kill you, you c#&%."
I knew that he was not lying, and was glad I was on a fairly busy street.
He could very well have knifed me, had that been his plan. Instead...I guess his plan was simple to harass me, since his earlier plan(to coerce me to submitting to his imagined superiority) had failed.
Me being me, I still wasn't backing down. But I knew I was in a very, very, dangerous situation. And so I began to yell, loudly:"HELP! THIS MAN IS HARASSING ME!"
Creepster quickly moved his ass to the side then, and started walking away rather quickly.
Yes, I admit that I did take a few verbal swipes at him while he was still in sight. Probably a good dozen or so swipes.
So - the lesson I "got" from that video clip is that there are men out there who will abuse you, through NO FAULT OF YOUR OWN, but just because they are sick individuals. There are men who will beat you, and there are men who will kill you. Just because you didn't bow down to them. And even bowing down won't be enough, for some of those men.
The other lesson I got, Kevin, is that you very well could be "that type" of man. That, in posting that video, you might imagine yourself as the man who cannot handle not getting his way and so throws a tantrum. Or worse.
Perhaps I am wrong. And I do not CARE if you are some historic climb FA'ist. To me, you are just a man who would post a video of an angry, violent man to make some obscure point. Perhaps I am wrong, but I do not get a good vibe from you. At. All.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Dec 28, 2017 - 01:30pm PT
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So who is gonna take a polygraph exam?
You can't be coerced into it. You're free to not take it.
...
Later, President of the Company tells me
"we wouldn't have hired you if you refused".
Postscript:
I passed. The examiner laughed when I replied to the "what is the biggest thing you ever stole": with "a car".
True fact:
The Company did uncover a murder (in Lousiana) during one of these "interviews". In this case the killer was a man. The killee's gender escapes me.
And the moral?
Coercion takes many forms.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Dec 28, 2017 - 02:10pm PT
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Congrats, Callie. You were always a hero to me.
Funny thing about Kevin is that I spent years around him in close quarters and never once saw him act disrespectful towards females or every speak that way either.
It might be helpful for someone to tease out those elements that make this such a charged topic for some men. For my money, if a woman doesn't give their full, conscious consent to do the naughty, the guy is crossing the line. Bedding down drunks, no matter what they say or didn't say, is the act of a creep at the very least.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Dec 28, 2017 - 03:32pm PT
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I allowed I could be wrong, and I wish you the best in any current or future close relationships you may have with women.
I'll say no more, though there is plenty more I could say. I know how the ST Boys Club can get when the wagons start circling, no offense intended to you.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Dec 28, 2017 - 03:53pm PT
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Happie, you've obviously had bad experiences with the opposite sex, so have I.
This is where the sense of asymmetry comes in, I might have missed it, but I don't think Warbler has had the sort of encounter on the street that Happie described. I think most women worry about those same sorts of encounters, violent (or physically threatening) encounters with men, just because they're women.
Warbler was never fired from a job because he was pregnant, a propos of the waitress scene, and during the same time period, Debbie was fired from her job waitressing at the Dunken Donut across from Lincoln Center in Manhattan when she was pregnant with our daughter.
What bad experiences have you had, Warbler?
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 28, 2017 - 04:08pm PT
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What bad experiences have you had, Warbler?
Nancy dumped him and his wife divorced him ......?
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Dec 28, 2017 - 04:18pm PT
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Show us the polygraph(s)
Borrowed from another thread
Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far they can go.
T. S. Eliot.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Dec 28, 2017 - 05:00pm PT
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Seriously though, Ed, women talk about the lasting psychological impacts of sexual assault and rape. The physical wounds heal quickly for the most part, and in a sense are insignificant.
some rapes result in the death of the woman, or lasting injuries, that can't be minimized.
And neither can the psychological effect of that physical trauma, one that men do not experience for the most part, not being the victim in most of these sorts of crimes. When they are victims, think of the personal violations that occurred at Abu Ghraib, it is cause for international outrage.
I think you have proposed a false equivalent.
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 28, 2017 - 05:35pm PT
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LOL Kevin
Where's Nancy these days anyways? I last saw her a few years ago.
Nancy won best lookin legs in San Deigo back then, right?
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Dec 28, 2017 - 05:39pm PT
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^I don't think that is correct.
Here is the actual winner
Clicket or ticket.
Strength, utility, appearance & vitality
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Dec 28, 2017 - 08:12pm PT
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At one time OB had not only Marudis, Longhorns and the longest pier in CA, but also good vibes.
It was a long time ago.
EDIT:
Ft Rosecrans, that's different.
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 28, 2017 - 08:39pm PT
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I'm not on the fence.
I know what's going on.
In a court of law, you introduce some doubt and then clear it completely.
That leaves the opposition flatfooted and nowhere left to go or hide ......
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 28, 2017 - 08:55pm PT
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Hooorrahhh
You ever do YPB?
I never did ..... Happy New Year Kevin :-)
And I miss Nancy, she was cool .....
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Dec 29, 2017 - 06:47am PT
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An almost New Year's bump for Callie!!!
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nah000
climber
now/here
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Jan 17, 2018 - 07:15pm PT
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i made it half way through that video before i became concerned my ears were going to start bleeding or my eyes were going to compulsively roll into the back of my head to save myself from losing more time to absolute inanity... and so i had to shut it off...
i have no love lost for peterson and in general it seems his goal is to be a martyr... but heyzeus christos almighty: that has to be one of the most abhorrent interviewers i’ve ever seen. what an absolute inability/disinterest to listen to what peterson was actually saying...
no idea why he would either agree to be interviewed by someone like that, and if it was a surprise to him, why he stayed in the room...
what a waste of everyone’s time that “conversation” was...
or at least the first half that i managed to make it through...
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Jan 17, 2018 - 07:28pm PT
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Mr. Peterson has lost his accreditation at the U of T...
Is this another one of your alternative facts, Brennan? or do you have a source for this claim?
...
what a waste of everyone’s time that “conversation” was...
Unless the aim was to actually see/study a textbook case of how to ruin an interview that otherwise could have been full of principle and insight.
"This man @jordanbpeterson is preternaturally calm and composed in the face of a hostile interviewer who also had simply not thought adequately about her ideas and approach. Facts and reason are powerful allies." -Nicholas Cristakis
By Douglas Murray...
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/01/the-curious-star-appeal-of-jordan-peterson/
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