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ionlyski
Trad climber
Polebridge, Montana
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Takes you to a subscription or login page for Wall Street Journal. After a few clicks to see if I could get around that process I quit. Got another calculator link?
Arne
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Gunkie
Trad climber
Valles Marineris
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 6, 2017 - 05:22am PT
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Sorry, I didn't realize this was a subscription page @ WSJ.com
This is a really good interactive calculator, too. It shows current tax law impacts versus the GOP tax plan impacts. I looked around and only found fill-in-the-blank kind of things which only calculate next year's tax liabilities.
EDIT: This one is OK:
http://tpc-election-calculator.urban.org/
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Roughster
Sport climber
Vacaville, CA
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My taxes go down by over $3,000.
Just to be clear, I didn't vote for Trump, and I think the tax plan is a huge mistake. I don't need a tax break, but will enjoy another vacation I guess...
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John M
climber
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Roughster, then back up your talk with a little walk. Send in an extra $3000.
For this to work it requires everyone working together. Thats why people don't follow your notion. Much like depending on churches to feed people, or house people, etc doesn't work. It requires everyone having a part in it for these kinds of things to work. Sure, churches feed and house some people. But "some" doesn't cut it. Government is about "we the people". Churches are "we the believers". There is a difference. This is not a bad difference. Just a difference. So no.. him sending in his tax break doesn't work. We either all pull together on the same plan, or not. He is saying this current tax plan isn't necessary for his income bracket. Why is that so hard to understand? Its doubtful that you are in his income bracket. So no.. your idea doesn't work. Its simplistic. Thats different form simple.
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Roughster
Sport climber
Vacaville, CA
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Roughster, then back up your talk with a little walk. Send in an extra $3000.
That was per the posted calculator. Now in reality I still actually do expect my taxes to drop a smidgen, but not a ton. What I would be surprised is if either of those tax calculators accurately account for the inability to write off state and local income taxes and mortgage interest. Those two provisions right there impact pretty much every single person in California with a particularly hard hit to those with home(s) and an established career. They initially planned on eliminating your ability to claim property tax, but instead now allow a cap of $10K (at least the senate version).
When this goes into effect, and people like Jody see what it is going to do to their taxes, there is going to be some quick changes of heart.
I'll be fine, but this tax plan is going to put a huge chunk of the population even closer to zero safety net.
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Gunkie
Trad climber
Valles Marineris
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 6, 2017 - 08:53am PT
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What I would be surprised is if either of those tax calculators accurately account for the inability to write off state and local income taxes and mortgage interest.
The calculators seem to account for those items because there is input for those things. Whether or not these input parameters are just window dressing, I cannot answer as I did not build the calculator. However, these calculators do correlate based on my numbers.
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Roughster
Sport climber
Vacaville, CA
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Jody:
So, John M, there is no principle here...just big talk but nothing to back up the big talk except, "I am not going to do it unless everybody does it"...that is a cowardly position to take.
So you would propose I send an equivalent amount of tax savings I get to continue to fund further tax cuts for the ultra wealthy and mega corporations that need tax breaks even less than I do and that I don't support? I have ZERO confidence that it would be used to help the people who need it.
This is your logic?
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Roughster
Sport climber
Vacaville, CA
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Gunkie:
The calculators seem to account for those items because there is input for those things. Whether or not these input parameters are just window dressing, I cannot answer as I did not build the calculator. However, these calculators do correlate based on my numbers.
I hope they are right, don't get me wrong! That would mean I will be pleasantly disappointing by either getting that full $3K or even more :)
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John M
climber
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I am pointing out the futility of doing what you suggest. And as roughster points out, he would be enabling a program that he doesn't believe in. As for it being cowardly, its no more cowardly then a first responder knowing the futility of acting before there is enough support for an action for it to do any good. In other words wasted effort. As a first responder, if all that you had was a bottle of water at a car fire, would you throw that water on the fire knowing that it would do no good, or wait for an appropriate response.
I don't support people behaving foolishly for the sole purpose of "standing up for their belief".
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John M
climber
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So then Jody your argument is that we should do away with all government, since there is no tax cut large enough. Come on Jody. Government in and of itself is not evil. The will of the people can be evil. The will of its leaders can be evil. But government itself is not evil. And the way to combat that evil isn't to simply starve it. If you look closely enough at evil, then you will find that if you use that tactic, and you don't have complete control over it, then it will find other ways to surface.
We both would likely agree that our military in and of itself is not evil, but I would certainly say that it has behaved in evil manners at times, and that the military industrial complex has too much power. So is the answer then to starve it to death? would that be your solution?
My argument is that though there is corruption, we still need government. Including in doing the good of educating our populace. Making certain our populace doesn't starve. And making certain it has housing. When I speak of these things I do not mean as some would imply, that I am for a communist society. I am not. Everyone who can work, should work. And they should be able to retain a majority of their efforts. But the government is there for a backstop. Which is why I am for feeding the poor through such programs as food stamps. I also believe that the government ts there to protect the rights of people. which is why I am for regulating the internet and not allowing large corporations to monopolize it.
Love your neighbor as yourself applies in how you treat government.
So what we need to do is help both parties find balance.
We don't need to spend more then the next 8 largest countries on our military to have an effective military. That is out of balance.
We also don't need to make certain everyone is wealthy or 100 percent safe. There has to be balance in both parties. Starving our government so that nothing can really be done is not an appropriate response. Its a fearful response. Its a response that says man will never learn.
Is there a lot of corruption now? Yep.. But I am not giving up on man because God won't give up on man. Never the less, we are in a time where man's actions are coming home to roust. Sometimes a parent has to do that with a child when that child is willful and refuses to learn. The parent has to let them reap the consequences of their actions.
I laugh heartily and with joy at women finally finding enough power to as a whole voice their objections to men abusing them. I believe that Trump played a part in that. His over the top ugly and biased attack of women while supporting abusers and being an abuser has helped tip the balance. So yes, good can come from evil. and also yes, Hillary's attack on women who were abused by Bill also helped tip the balance.
I eagerly await seeing what will come next. What corruption of the carnal mind will be exposed next.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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somebody check that boy for an allergy to logic
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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As typical,
any thread with Jody becomes infested with his lack of reason.
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Roughster
Sport climber
Vacaville, CA
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Jody:
You just made a great argument for an even BIGGER tax cut. Thank you.
No, I just made a great argument for removal of the current corrupt Republican Congress and POTUS.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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I have a friend who is a one percenter. He started way below y’all - grandson of a Bama sharecropper. Only one store in town would sell food to blacks.* At an early age he knew there was one way out, and it wasn’t basketball. He’s now a surgeon. He doesn’t mind paying his fair share but he will tell you that if you can’t make it the USA it ain’t cause you were born a poor black.
*Quite interestingly that store was owned by the only Jewish family in town and they were only relatively more well off than their black customers and almost as hated. And the daughter of the store’s owner recently retired to her Pacific Palisades $2 million home (after working with her dad’s ‘customer’!) acquired the same way - study and work.
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yosemite 5.9
climber
santa cruz
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I have been a practicing CPA for thirty-two years. I like President Trump. I have been reading the House and the Senate proposals the last few days. I find them to be a ridiculous hodge-podge with no clear strategy.
They seem intent to reduce corporate tax cuts on the back of the working middle class. I am very disappointed at this point.
President George H. Bush was much better at helping the low and middle class taxpayers. He was even better than Ronald Regan. The current plans to eliminate exemptions for all, including children of taxpayers seems to be anti-family to me. George W. Bush would have never allowed such an anti-family provision.
The proposed restrictions on mortgage interest deductions pretty much violate homeowners' reliance on this deduction on a long-term basis. Many of us have invested in our homes in reliance on this deduction.
The proposed restrictions on the local taxes deduction affects those of us who pay those local taxes.
Both the House and the Senate propose to eliminate employee business expenses as a deduction. If you travel as a salesperson or construction worker this might cause a dramatic increase in your 2018 income taxes. The U.S. Supreme Court has defended this deduction for taxpayers many times.
I am So disappointed.
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Roughster
Sport climber
Vacaville, CA
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Jody:
Ask the French how that model works out over time... and it’s not a dirty little secret, I would gladly call myself a democratic socialist!
So you are going to pass up on the chance to talk about how it wasn’t an error / incompetence but a purposeful ploy?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Roughster, apparently you don’t stay abreast of whazzup in France. The free-loaders and petit bureaucrats love their system, Frenchmen who work - not so much. Why do you think Marine has such a large following? Yes, a few racists but mostly people who’ve worked their butts off and watched people who didn’t sit at home on the dole. Want to start a business in France? You better like spending AT LEAST 6 MONTHS wading through bureaucratic flaming hoops. That’s why over 400,000 French moved to England - 3 days max to get all their licenses and permits.
zBrown, pretty damn cheap shot on the guv teat slur.
He coulda been offed any day on the job.
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