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big ears
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 1, 2017 - 09:00pm PT
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So im finally going to put tome money into a nice turntable set up, after years of enjoying on a pretty entry level set up.
Im looking at the PS Audio Sprout for an amp/ pre-amp and the Pro-ject Debut Carbon for the turntable.
For now i will stick with some older speakers i have, and am going to scour craigist for some good Klipsch speakers.
Anyone have advice? From what i can tell, getting the quality table/ amp first is going to get me more bamg for my buck, as opposed to getting nice speakers first, them working backwards.
Thoughts? Comments?
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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I have a Pro-ject Debut Carbon turntable and I like it... sort of amazing compared to 50 years ago...
a Harmon Kardon HK3470
a bunch of peripheral stuff, cassette player, cd player, etc...
can't remember what the speakers are... nice large traditional boxes...
probably work on the speakers if I ever felt I really needed to listen to music that way regularly.
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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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My husband used to have a pretty hi end system but sold it all off a few years ago when his hearing deteriorated to the point where it was a waste. Most of the buyers for his stuff were Orange County Vietnamese gentlemen ( interesting demographic - who knew)? Anyway I asked him your question and he says you are doing it in the right order. He thinks his old buddy Mike Yee's phono preamp is better value/ quality than PS audio but isn't sure they are still being made. He said also get the best cartridge you can afford.
Have fun! His system was his salvation for many years when he was working insane hours. Decompressing every night for an hour in the " listening room".
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big ears
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 1, 2017 - 09:27pm PT
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^^^thanks.
Im the same way, it helps me decompress. Better than the boob tube
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big ears
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 1, 2017 - 09:59pm PT
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Debut Carbon. Hef approved
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Polebridge, Montana
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Jbl studio monitors 4400 or 4300 series. Technics MK II. UREI amps and Klark Teknik EQ.
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klinefelter
Boulder climber
Bishop, CA
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Walleye, Those ESS speakers are sporting the finest tweeters ever created, the Air Motion Transformers. I have a pair of similar ESSs, and the sound is outstanding. Good choice.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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I personally can not hear the difference between a $100 table and a $1000 table. Bi-amped speakers are the ticket. JBLs are a good choice. I like Cerwin Vegas if you are going for punch and volume. Currently using a pair of Bose 901s
My current project is to restore a pair of Bozak B-4000 speakers. Will be bi-amping them off four Outlaw 200 amps.
Probably end up selling them because you have to listen to them at least 15 feet away, not happening in my shack.
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tornado
climber
lawrence kansas
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Get a decent cartridge. Ortofon makes great stuff. Their 2m series is awesome and reasonably priced.
If you have a good cartridge then you will a true idea of the what the records sound like. Then you can swap out and try other components and see what you like best.
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klinefelter
Boulder climber
Bishop, CA
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FYI, investing in a turntable and amp BEFORE the speakers is almost universally considered a backward approach. The speakers are the most important component in any system. Invest your money there first. The best and most expensive turntable and amp will always sound like crap through mediocre speakers, where any decent source and amplifier can sound wonderful through a good set of speakers.
And if you're looking at Klipsch, be sure to invest in their Reference series. If you're seeking the best bang-for-buck, check out the highly praised Pioneer series designed by Andrew Jones -- very inexpensive and considered by many the best value around.
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Delectronics&field-keywords=andrew+Jones+Designed
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Big Ears, great to see people who appreciate vinyl. Building up your stereo you'll learn about the principle of the weakest link. I'd say you're doing it in the right order, maybe if you have to wait on the speakers get some good headphones in the interim. One thing that can make a big difference is to locate your turntable where it can't hear your speakers. If you play music loud the cartridge will pick up the sound out of phase with what it's picking up from the disc. It creates a subtle distortion but once you recognize it it'll drive you nuts.
I made masters for vinyl records for 15 years. This here is a Nuemann cutting lathe, the best ever made.
I'm running this cartridge. You can't do better without spending a whole lot more $$
Too bad you can't get this turntable or preamp any more. Great stuff. Yamaha PF800 with a Hafler preamp. That Parasound amp is another piece you can't match without going way spendo...
I'll take issue with "best tweeters ever made." Raven ribbons rock, but the crossover is specialized or their just fuses :-) The mains are Scanspeak, all the drivers are time aligned. Oh, they're custom so you can't get them either. Here they are in a professional setting: My old desk. It got moved from L.A. to Oregon though.
That's a Boston Acoustics powered sub, probably the weakest link in the rig but it works. I keep the subs pretty subtle anyway.
A collectors item, the original 45 rpm single:
edit: klinefelter's not wrong, but if you go the other way 'round you'll be committed. Get the speakers first, that might be as far as you get.
;-)
Another edit, Ionlyski, I had that Technics. Too much rumble for me. Best ever for DJ's and scratching though.
Is this my final edit? If you live in L.A., get on this places email list. They have listening events and demo's several times a year. It will enlighten you to hear some of the finest audio gear made.
Brooks Berdan ltd
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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I highly recommend that you go somewhere that you can do A/B comparisons of different components (or buy stuff for your home comparison and test when you still have time to return the items you don't want). Judge with your ears, not what other people say, not what has a better reputation or higher price tag, etc.
Also beware of how much listening fatigue and the context of your listening session (i.e. what you are listening to, and what you listened to before/after the stuff you are trying to analyze) can affect your perception. I play with guitar amplifier modeling tools through full-range flat-response high quality speakers, and what sounds amazing one day (perhaps after hours of tweaking and making adjustments as my hearing imperceptibly deteriorates) makes me scratch my head the next day and start over.
Finally, consider why you listen to music- most likely to enjoy the experience? Be wary of chasing a peak listening experience of sonic bliss that spoils you to the other mundane moments in life where you could still be enjoying music, such as listening in a car.
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nah000
climber
now/here
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+1 for NutAgain's advice above. everybody has different ears with different sensitivities and what to one person is money that must be spent, is to another money that is just pissed down the drain. and once you get started, like any addiction, there is much money to be potentially pissed away... so focus on the elements, that once you hear as part of a system similar to yours, you can't live without... and if you're not sure if you hear a difference then don't worry about it despite what your audiophilic friend or online wanker rants/raves about it...
and a +1 for Ksolem's parasound recommendation. i've got an older amp, pre-amp and tuner of theirs now and agree that for the buck it was a spend i'm happy with.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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full-range flat-response high quality speakers
Hey, we're talking stereo gear here. You gotta tell us what you're listening too. There a very few speakers out there that can live up to that standard...
;-)
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briham89
Big Wall climber
santa cruz, ca
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I have a project debut carbon as well. I dig it!
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Bump for Cosmic.
If they're in good shape and he's got the equalizer they come with new, the 901's are a great product for the money. Generally speaking, among serious listeners Bose products are not well regarded. These 901's Cosmic has are an exception.
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Some time around 1982-3, I bought a Luxman L530 integrated amplifier, Systemdek IIX turntable and Infinity SM 112 speakers. The two first components were quite well regarded, the last one not. But I thought the components functioned well together to produce good sound. I still have the amplifier and the turntable, but five years ago I put them to the side. I still keep them and some hundred LPs. In modern times it is not easy to have an amplifier you need to pre-warm before you use. And youtube is offering som remarkable live recordings. Part of the story is also a Tandberg 3001A tuner.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Hey Kris, by your standards what I listen to can’t really be called FRFR for studio applications :)
But they are pretty darn good for the price range.
https://shop.atomicamps.com/product_p/clr-neo-mkii.htm
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/review-atomic-amps-clr-powered-wedge-neo-version.77917/
Atomic CLR 1000 watt powered wedges, light version with Neodymium magnets (to make them more manageable for bringing to rehearsals or shows)- still 33 lbs each.
I tried a pair of QSC-K10 that are popular, but I discovered they really accentuate the bass (which is fine for home listening stereo or DJ dance parties, but sucks if you use them to edit reference sounds on a box that will then be directly connected to a studio board). I made guitar sounds that I liked a lot through the QSC-K10 but it sounded weak and thin and tinny when going direct out to the board and heard through monitors in Aspens Place (recording studio north of Hollywood). That’s what made me buy the Atomic CLRs. I sold the pair of QSC K10 on Craigslist, and an arranger from The Voice TV show bought them.
The Atomics are good enough that I clearly hear how much the cheap Beringer mixers (best deals at Guitar Center) actually degrade the sound- can tell by testing with mixer in the chain or not. Best way to say it is the mixer in the chain makes it sound less “live” and “rich” and “articulate”. Maybe some phase smearing or loss of high end or I don’t know what. Testing with lossy mp3 files for a source you wouldn’t hear a difference- that would be the weak link.
All this is not directly relevant for folks shopping home stereo speakers. Most people don’t like the sound of a flat response, and upvote stuff with more boomy bass or at least clarity for listening at loud levels. But the FRFR is important for consistency in recording or going between venues for live shows.
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