Will Ryan be as bad a president as Trump? Or worse?

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Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Dec 5, 2017 - 09:26pm PT
He'd be a bad President...or worse.

Credit: Wade Icey
Lituya

Mountain climber
Dec 5, 2017 - 09:32pm PT
Edit: As for more government bloat and fewer private sector jobs... diminishing government is not going to create more private sector jobs. It will just increase unemployment, cause less money to be in circulation buying products from those few monster private companies that are left. I see government directly hiring people as a tourniquet on the bleeding artery of America: the diminishing number of full-time jobs and the increasing technical requirements that are outpacing the ability of the populace to be trained for them. Private sector focuses on reducing jobs in every way they can without reducing profits. That will continue unabated

Strongly disagree. Private sector efficiencies can be admired and hated at the same time--but government bloat is a danger to liberty. Private sector companies will hire and pay as the market demands. Government will simply confiscate from the private sector and property owners to hire more of their own.

One place we might agree is competition. I believe most modern corporate mergers need to be severely limited--ala Teddy Roosevelt/Howard Taft style breakups even. Amazon would be a great place to start. Innovation is great--but market power is dangerous.
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Dec 6, 2017 - 04:49pm PT
Let's start with no one could possibly be worse than Nero (at my house we refuse to utter his given name)

Ryan will be marginally better although he's far more beholden to the whacko right wing.
We are of course assuming that Nero will be impeached. Which I predicted a few days after the election. Why will he be impeached? Because the Republitards will see him as a millstone around their necks and get rid of him before the mid term election or suffer greatly.
As shown in the past week, they'll do ANYTHING, including support Roy Moore in Alabama to keep their monopoly in the Congress. They have said so publicly. But their calculations are transparent and with any luck will fail thanks to the stench of Nero on them.

The Republitards have proven to be the most venal collection elected to the Congress since Reconstruction. Racist, Misogynistic, Brutal, Cruel and just plain stupid. The people will awaken and the Repubs WILL be out next midterm.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Dec 6, 2017 - 05:16pm PT
Nero, Ryan, Flake, McCain, Cruz- All the frauds are holding their noses long enough to administer the poison pill (Tax Reform).

Once deficits explode, the stage will be set to pull the plug on vestiges of the New Deal and Great Society and shred regulations.

Americans have clearly shown that they are too easily fooled to raise taxes on the wealthy, close tax loop holes, address entitlements in a reasonable manner and reduce the military budget to get control of our debt.
Lituya

Mountain climber
Dec 6, 2017 - 05:31pm PT
Looks like a bumper crop of California nuts this year!
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Dec 6, 2017 - 05:39pm PT
Looks like a bumper crop of California nuts this year!

as one would expect from the most prosperous, innovative state in the union

where net tax dollars go out of state to help the "red states"

I'll take fruits and nuts all day long
couchmaster

climber
Dec 6, 2017 - 07:00pm PT
I'll admit to only having read the title of this thread. Oh I scrolled down and tried to read some of the (I'm sure they were most interesting and insightful) posts, but it was too much. Please, I apologize, but if I can let this video speak to my thoughts, we can all grow and have the discussion on the less important things like this critical topic you want to discuss later.



Well, that felt good. The days are rushing by children, it'l be over before you know it. Now Chris, bring the banhammer again.

CU all later hopefully.



Robert L

climber
Dec 6, 2017 - 07:30pm PT
Looks like a bumper crop of California nuts this year!

To paraphrase Bertrand Russell, 'nothing is more fatiguing than the daily effort to believe things that become more incredible'.

Why not give yourself a holiday? You could make it time to accept reality, even if you don't like it.

BTW: Californian individuals are great people. Organistations are almost always less so.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 7, 2017 - 10:32am PT
Credit: Jaybro
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Dec 7, 2017 - 11:11am PT
Couchmaster........ good to see you back.



Lituya

Mountain climber
Dec 7, 2017 - 06:09pm PT
@NutAgain!, not trying to be too harsh here as you seem to be more thoughtful and engaging than most liberals I've met. Still, I'm wondering how you reconcile the two statements below--both yours. Particularly your stated contempt for "flatlanders" and "cheapskates" even as you say all the right things about equality. I don't hold your position on the hill against you, but you're clearly at or near the 1% threshold. I would just ask you to reflect on whether the crushing boots you describe are your own.


I live in a tall house located high on a hill, about as much privacy and space as we could afford within reasonable work commuting distance of a dense part of Los Angeles. The windows and sliding glass door are designed to maximize my expansive view without concern for line of site from neighbors.

I paid big bucks for my view, not so some cheapskate living in the flatlands below me can mess it up and invade my privacy.

The changes afoot, which are different variations on the themes of ruthless pursuit of power that have always been afoot, are not within our individual power to stop. But if we raise our voices and call out the sh!t where we see it, and we help wake up the people around us, and encourage more of us to engage in our civic duty to vote and give feedback to our elected representatives, we will over time improve the quality of our government and it's ability to regulate the forces that conspire to undercut our collective well-being.

When we give up hope in that system, the only alternative is acceptance of a boot crushing our faces and taking everything we have by force. Some people feel like that already, but there is always room for it to get worse. And it will get worse until enough people feel enough pain to take action to avoid that pain.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Dec 8, 2017 - 07:37am PT
Ho man.... what's all this about an encryption key??????

10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Dec 8, 2017 - 07:47am PT
Lituya, how about posting up a climbing tr, brah?
xCon

Social climber
909
Dec 8, 2017 - 08:14am PT
whats ryans positions on the filth isreal find and trains to harass the people of palistine

“These incidents illustrate the casual manner in which Israeli soldiers stationed in the West Bank can threaten and intimidate dozens of Palestinian school students and several teachers, disrupting routine studies,” B’Tselem said. “These are not isolated or exceptional incidents, but an integral part of life in Hebron… The constant harassment of Palestinian residents by security forces and settlers, deny residents the chance to maintain a routine and make their lives intolerable.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=213&v=yDQUONGCRXk

Credit: xCon


supported by their citizens of course

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPxv4Aff3IA
bbbeans

Trad climber
Dec 10, 2017 - 10:02am PT
xCon

Social climber
909
Dec 10, 2017 - 11:19am PT
Scientists in Houston, Texas, have lifted the lid on one of America’s darkest and deepest secrets: that hidden beneath fabulous wealth, the US tolerates poverty-related illness at levels comparable to the world’s poorest countries. More than one in three people sampled in a poor area of Alabama tested positive for traces of hookworm, a gastrointestinal parasite that was thought to have been eradicated from the US decades ago.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/sep/05/hookworm-lowndes-county-alabama-water-waste-treatment-poverty
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Dec 11, 2017 - 12:56am PT
Hey Lituya, been busy doing errands and yard work and my regular paid work...

I think the first quote of mine was from a discussion about drones? I don’t remember exactly. There was a moment- only happened one time- when a drone was hanging out in front of my window in a way that would allow an anonymous person (I don’t know who it was) to take mostly naked pics of me in my living room or bedroom. Pretty sure that was the context for that message. “Flat-lander” would have been used tongue in cheek.

The deeper question or inconsistency I think you are trying to reconcile is my semi-affluence (depending on your frame of reference), that I embrace my pleasures that would not be possible in an “equal” society, and yet I seem to be supporting societal equality.


Here’s the deal. I don’t believe that all wealth should be EQUALLY distributed. I do believe access to opportunities should be equally distributed so that the effort we put into life has a bigger role in determining what we get out of life. I do believe in property rights today (though I also believe that most property ownership goes back to some violent act of a stronger person taking from a weaker person). I think there should be differences in income that align with value generation, as measured by supply/demand, but the differences are magnified too much today because the value of money itself for begetting more money has created a sort of feedback loop that makes an unreasonably big divide between the rich and poor in our society. I think government regulations should exist to continually interfere in the natural feedback loop that gives those with money too much power over those without. Government regulations should also hold all entities accountable for the long term costs of resources they exploit- such as the environmental destruction by chemical emissions or delayed health impacts from toxic food. Since companies can declare bankruptcy after the owners have extracted profits without the risk part, and then the owners can regroup in a new company and do it all over again, we need governments to make regulations to have companies pre-pay into escrowed accounts for their future environmental damage or health impacts. If this was done, then a lot of the bullish!t that companies do would be gone. The real costs over time would make certain practices untenable.


I digress.

I am pro-capitalist, pro- personal incentive, but I also believe in government regulation to keep a level playing field where natural dynamics would cause the stronger parties to reap all the rewards while all the rest are left with as close to nothing as possible. Government regulation is what creates the freedom for buyers and sellers to walk away from a transaction, by supporting alternative choices and giving more access to information and making sellers pay the full costs of their production so they sell for a price that reflects the true costs and so the market can decide whether those costs are bearable.

So take the good parts of competitive capitalism and the good parts of socialism :)
Lituya

Mountain climber
Dec 11, 2017 - 11:12am PT
NutAgain!, thanks for the thoughtful reply. A lot you and I agree on--in fact most of it. I guess it's just a matter of degrees, e.g. to what extent government should supplant and/or intercede re the market and personal wealth.

Re private property, there are certainly western roots that lie in Locke, The Enlightenment, Enclosure Acts, etc. And yes, the change was violent--but better than what was before, IMO. Still, we play the cards we're dealt today and are free to suffer varying degrees of guilt for the flaws of our ancestors. Despite my badgering, I certainly don't think your property ownership is worthy of any guilt. It sounds beautiful. As long as the individual down below can aspire and work toward the same, I'm good too. (And yes, please shoot down his drone. I recommend 20ga w/#6 steel shot.)

It's a tough balancing act. Wealth is generated through three basic mechanisms: Wages, profits, and rents. While capitalism embraces all three, socialism seems uncomfortable, at a minimum, with the latter two. And that's a big problem from my perspective. Even where I disagree with you in scale, I may concede that capitalism must, from time to time, be protected from itself. Teddy Roosevelt knew this.

Anyway, refreshing to hear a self-described liberal also express support for capitalism. It's getting harder and harder to do.


Edit: I'm no Peter Singer fan, but we share a common meta-view of capitalism. Here's one of his quotes:

Capitalism is very far from a perfect system, but so far we have yet to find anything that clearly does a better job of meeting human needs than a regulated capitalist economy coupled with a welfare and health care system that meets the basic needs of those who do not thrive in the capitalist economy... If we ever do find a better system, I'll be happy to call myself an anti-capitalist.
John M

climber
Dec 11, 2017 - 11:25am PT
Most liberals believe in capitalism. what we have trouble with are people who believe that capitalism means that the market should control everything. Free market is a misnomer. It should be a regulated market. I refer back to your quote..

regulated capitalist economy
the bold is mine.
xCon

Social climber
909
Dec 11, 2017 - 05:06pm PT
Rebel Honduran police ignore curfew order, election protesters rejoice
even our OAS stooges wont agree with the rigged results that were announced

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-honduras-election/rebel-honduran-police-ignore-curfew-order-election-protesters-rejoice-idUSKBN1DX0X7



fortunately for the American dictator holding out against fair elections he was able to call in the "special" police America spent some hundred million dollars training to take on drug smugglers to beat the protestors and tear gas the homes where people were banging pots and pans in protest



https://theintercept.com/2017/12/03/the-president-of-honduras-is-deploying-u-s-trained-forces-against-election-protesters/
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