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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Dec 26, 2017 - 06:59pm PT
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stevep! Re your comment: That said, many Republicans here are tired of Hatch too. I talked to a couple a few days ago that indicated they would happily vote for Romney instead of Hatch in a primary
Yes! And besides that, the super-conservative Hatch is undoubtedly a little too-liberal for current Utah conservatives.
He used to play music with them damn-Democrats in Congress & was friends with Ted Kennedy.
Despite their political differences, Hatch was a longtime friend of fellow senator Ted Kennedy, speaking at his memorial service and publicly suggesting Kennedy's widow as a replacement for Kennedy in the Senate.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Dec 27, 2017 - 07:29am PT
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The point is, hatch won't leave u till he dies or leaves on his own. And yes. SLc and Moab, have higher percent demo than the rest of the state.enough so, that you live in one of those places, as we do it's easy to get a distorted view of how non progressive the state really is.
There is legal background for pushing on Trump's illegal moves concerning bears ears. Fantasizing of ousting Hatch is magical thinking. Right now we need real, over fairytales.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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I'm sorry, did you just say Hatch wouldn't leave?
He just announced no eighth term for him.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Hey Longnut! Re your above remark: yet ya'll have no problem sticking your noses into the business of other states.
Last time I looked, BLM & Forest Service managed lands belonged to the American people, not the state of Utah.
Is some organization actually paying you to post their crap on blog sites, or were you suddenly gripped by a revelation, & joined the verbal battle against liberals & the America we grew up with?
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Last time I checked the Property Clause in the constitution allows the US to manage federal public lands.
The US knows what's best for federal public lands.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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And Longnut, who posts hard for his money, evades my question!
Is some organization actually paying you to post their crap on blog sites, or were you suddenly gripped by a revelation, & joined the verbal battle against liberals & the America we grew up with?
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Longnut? You first show up on ST on 12/14/17 & have 20 posts so far, all on political threads.
The big-bucks conservatives are now paying folks to post their political views on blog sites. I suppose we should be honored that ST is worthy of their money & your time.
Both are currently wasted here, Dude!
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Oh my, Fritz, it's another conspiracy!!
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Lituya! Re your remark!
Oh my, Fritz, it's another conspiracy!!
I was mostly convinced no rich conservative would be stupid enough to pay you to post on ST.
However, Heidi just switched our Maui condo TV to Fox & the Laura Ingraham Show.
She makes you seem sane & normal.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Nice work on getting Hatch to bail D.p.
Now can we address the unconstitutionality of various Trump moves ( like bears ears trimming?)
Is that, okay now?
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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^^^
Ah, it's the troll again. Climbing website dude. Take your bullshit to some other forum that will appreciate it, like the comments sections of Breitbart.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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My understanding of the Antiquities Act is that it was put in place to prevent looting of archaeological and Native American structures and objects.
not just looting, of course, but also to protect them...
If you've walked around at all at Indian Creek, you find this sort of thing:
and elsewhere in Utah, e.g. the San Raphael Swell these haunting images:
which, in my opinion, are better without the modern graffiti provided by the recent locals (apparently since at least 1931), the original work stands by itself, and should be protected for future generations.
The predominance of "Don't Tread On Me" flags flying from the antennas of OHVs careening around this place indicates that those recent locals don't think it is appropriate to have these protections provided by the Federal government. Their first amendment rights should not be infringed... they should be free to add graffiti where they desire (?).
In my humble understanding, it is precisely this sort of thing that falls within the purview of the Antiquities Act.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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The presumption that because it's been done, makes it okay to take it back, with no mechanism for doing so is what I'm talking about.
The Bubbaglyph president?
He's the one doing the "Land grab". Preserving it, is not "grabbing" , but exploiting It to enhance ones own "emoluments", is!
And for the records, the preservation of the antiquities in this, is much more significant than any impact it's going to have on climbers. I don't see them mining/ drilling say, the cliffs of insanity. By the time it is economically feasible to extract there, there won't be any other desert left😎
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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I think the Constitution says, that those powers not explicitly given to the Federal Gov. are the States.
Adjudicating differences is the role of the Courts, making new law the role of the Congress, which is composed of representatives from the States...
seems to have been a workable plan.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Obama moved to restrict the land from certain user groups.
"certain user groups," the resource extraction groups, I believe... who don't have a market for what they propose to extract. The statement I recall reading in a local paper out of Blanding, UT is that the locals (as they were represented in the meeting) didn't want to become another "Moab," they wanted the right to the mineral resources. (They just want to take them out, they would rather walk away and leave what's left for someone, probably the Federal Gov., to clean up).
Of course, Moab makes a lot more on the tourist trade than the potential gains in the Bear's Ears NM from extracting, coal, uranium, oil.
Interestingly, the voting districts in Utah seemed to have been selected rather carefully,
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/04/us/native-american-voting-rights.html
interesting enough to invite a look at from the Federal Gov., which is so empowered by legislation.
the lack of introspection cannot come as a surprise anymore... for example:
Tauna Larson, a retired educator who lives in the north, said she looked at the possibility of two Navajo commissioners with some trepidation. “I worry that they might tend to look out more for the reservation,” she said. “The majority tends to take care of their own.”
My guess is that Ms. Larson is not Navajo.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Making America more polluted, oops, I mean, Great Again. Ballo will be thrilled.
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Don Paul
Mountain climber
Denver CO
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xCon, I think you are onto something there. Should be able to challenge every development project at the administrative level in the BLM, then sue under APA in federal court, and that takes at least three years. Time enough to elect another president. Also, just the fact that people are able to tie them up this way in court should disourage people from investing money until they see how things are going to shake out. So I think its important that as soon as someone learns of something in the works, someone challenges it in the BLM.
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Reeotch
climber
4 Corners Area
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Thanks for that link Don.
I'd sure like to see a map of where all those mining claims are.
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Reeotch
climber
4 Corners Area
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Feb 24, 2018 - 07:09am PT
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Here are some pics from Sheik's Canyon last weekend. This is part of Obama's Bear's Ears, but not Trump's version.
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