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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 10, 2017 - 06:48am PT
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Interesting stuff, Robert. Thanks.
@Guido: Well, damn. I was always in that old school camp. Can't beat old Lionel for a truth smack down.
@Hoser: Good point. I have no idea how he managed his personal finances, but Bachar was buying property and driving decent rigs when his lesser talented cohort were living off Alpo. And with all things medical, it's no problem running up bills that call for fundraisers, even with insurance. RIP to the master. He had a tough go of it those last years with the car accident and its aftermath.
I would think mtn. bikers would do a lot better as I thought it was a much bigger sport. I think it will be in the future, but with climbing coming to the next Olympics, the race is on. I know in my old home town of Tehachapi--tiny, middle of nowhere--the local community developed a pretty vibrant high school mtn. bike racing program. Pretty cool.
One thing re. "pro" climbing that has always seemed to me to be pretty damn annoying--if I had the chops to even be at that level--is the constant need to create and distribute "content." Gotta have the damn camera out all the time. Gotta set up shots, spray on social media, blah, blah, blah. I can see for sure how some folks might like the creative aspects of all that, but if you're in it for the climbing, ugh. BITD, you'd take pictures, maybe keep a journal, and all the rest would happen post climb. But it seems that today, the climbers have to do all this shiz all the time.
BAd
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Nov 10, 2017 - 07:35am PT
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I haven't seen many pro climbers remain active for more than a few years. The exceptions are just a handful, everyone can name them, even those seem to be low paying. Lynn Hill had some interesting comments in one of her Enormocasts. Her primary income these days is Air BnB. She was at the top. Overall, the pro climber seems to be a rather brief low paying career. Kalous generally asks his Enormocast guests how they make do, lots of other interesting examples.
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Nov 10, 2017 - 08:05am PT
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Interesting definition, DMT.
When I think of "pro climber", I think of folks who afford their lifestyle by being a climber, not necessarily being paid to climb.
That puts models back into the mix.
An example of this from another sport would be Anna Kournikova. She was never in the top of the top, but, her income crushed many, many better players. Still does more'n likely.
More money in "climbing" now, it seems, especially since its become much more mainstream. There's gravy out there for the taking. Kids just need to learn how to show up. Those that do, do ok I'd think.
Anyhoo...interesting.
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seano
Mountain climber
none
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Nov 10, 2017 - 08:43am PT
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Seems like the Skinner’s and the Honnold’s make a majority of their cash on the speaking circuits, telling the code monkeys in Mountain View to chase their dreams, not let fear hold them back, shift the paradigm, etc, etc. I clearly need to work on my message. "It hurts, and it's more likely to make you dead or quadriplegic than rich" probably doesn't encourage tech-bros to open their wallets.
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Nov 10, 2017 - 12:40pm PT
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I would think sponsored climbers get paid some amount to climb, guys like Donini are probably (or were) pro climbers. I'm thinking that is a very modest income but what do I know?
My guess is J Do did a'ight. But, as a rep, not necessarily as a "pro climber" per se?
Maybe that's parsing it a bit. Maybe he'll chime in and drop dime...ha ha.
I think the folks that figure out how to do it ain't sayin'. Although, you gotta show up.
Its interesting to me. I've known a number of people who climb who are either in that industry, or, support themselves though some time of climbing (guiding, teaching, etc). Gear rep'n and private clients. Not sure anyone's gettin' fat off it, but, reasonable row to hoe it seems.
Find a significant other who pays the bills...
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 10, 2017 - 02:12pm PT
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I had a little conversation with Peter Croft, and he mentioned a mix--guiding, work for The North Face, some writing, etc. I'm sure occasional slideshows. His wife does real estate. Except for just a couple of people at the very top, it's not really a "career." At least the young studs can make a few bucks while they work out some sort of income stream.
BAd
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darkmagus
Mountain climber
San Diego, CA
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Nov 10, 2017 - 03:36pm PT
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I've always wondered about the role of "family money" in pro climbing. When you follow some of these dudes (well, two in particular) on instagram, you see nice cars, nice places to live, trips to nice restaurants, and endless international travel. I bet many people here will be able to guess exactly who I'm talking about.
Just something I've been personally curious about. It wouldn't change the fact that they're amazing climbers, but it would help to explain how and why they're able to dedicate their lives to it.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Nov 10, 2017 - 04:27pm PT
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Definitely some trust funded climbers out there - but not that many, IMO - still just outliers.
By far, the pattern I see is youth and fame - and it lasts like 2 years.
Open any climbing mag from a mere 2 years ago.
My career has spanned about 30 years at this point. I think your typical Joe middle age middle class white collar professional - seem to be several on this forum - likely have more in assets than any pro climber will ever have.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
from Poofters Froth, Wyoming
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Nov 10, 2017 - 06:01pm PT
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Probably all trustafarians to some degree these days....
But, a million years ago when I was actually in the industry... the rate was pretty small, even for big name climbers (the biggest) climbing for the biggest (again, maybe the biggest) companies. I remember the rate was like $100 t0 $300 a month on a shoe contract... ropes less, and other junk just a use it and keep it sorta deal. Pretty grim.
Bachar was a different case... he was 1/2 owner (or so, can't remember) of Sole Survivor Corp, the distributor/importer of Fires, and their hood ornament. So, there was a pretty large salary attached to that position. I don't think he was ever a rep though... maybe after it all went down the toilet.
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 10, 2017 - 08:23pm PT
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Interesting, Russ, about Bachar. I assumed rep, but ownership makes more sense. I have a good friend who loves and trains hard for beach volley ball. She actually won a little money from a tournament or two, so she joked about caller herself a "pro." I suspect it's the same with climbers. Virtually all of them must have a supplemental income.
Mamas, don't let yer children grow up to be pro-climbers. Let 'em be doctors and lawyers and such....or however that old song goes.
BAd
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Nov 10, 2017 - 09:49pm PT
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I think for a sport to support well off athletes it needs one or more of the following
-expensive equipment
-large spectator following
-competitions with big purses
Climbing has none of the above. Yet.
Also,
"No contest for glory among men." Not to ruin the nostalgia but I doubt this was ever the case in climbing.
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micronut
Trad climber
Fresno/Clovis, ca
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Nov 10, 2017 - 11:33pm PT
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It's always been interesting to me how low on the totem pole "professional" climbers are when it comes to income and making a living. Even our few outstanding outliers don't even come close to lower tier athletes from other disciplines that would be considered fringe sports in the sportsworld, like skateboarding.
Skateboarding. Riding a skateboard.
Nyjah Houston is worth 6million.....and he is 20th on the list of earners.
Eric Koston 15 million......
And we are not even talking about the BIG guys like Rob Dyrdek and Tony Hawk 75-100 million.
Most "pro" climbers get some shoes, some clothing, some swag, a part or two in a climbing video..... possibly some small income to keep them climbing. Most who are passionate about trying to stay in the outdoor industry seem to rely on their creativity as filmmakers/photographers and public speakers as a means of staying connected to the larger companies who appreciate their style and commitment to the outdoor lifestyle so that they can be an "image" for the company in hopes of selling clothing etc. somebody up thread hinted that it was similar to a nice internship, which I would agree.
Kind of wild considering they're often out there risking their life. When riding a skateboard, bass fishing professionally or playing Playstation games on "the circuit" can earn more than I do in medicine.
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micronut
Trad climber
Fresno/Clovis, ca
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Nov 10, 2017 - 11:39pm PT
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Some "online gamers" stats for ya!
And you really want to spend a year working the moves on your highball V15 to get some new shoes and a 32nd spot in DOSAGE 8?
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Crump
Social climber
Canyon Lake, Texas
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Nov 11, 2017 - 07:25am PT
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Back in my day, early 80’s-90s. The only way to be “Pro” was to guide. You can make some money there, may $200-$300 a weekend, but it is seasonal and hard work. Guiding is a service industry.
I did get some sides, speaking events, free gear, discounted gear, but mostly I taught at UTexas and at a high school during the week and guided on the weekends. And I always felt like I had the poors. It did pay for me to get my degree in Physics which gave me a carreer.
One of our key strategies was to smuggle Mex-Green to Colorado (before legal) to pay for our summers climbing!
But we were young and stupid back then and did not even know how to do sport climbing!
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 11, 2017 - 07:29am PT
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The whole pro video gaming thing just blows me away. I know there's even one college with a team, so there must be others. I guess it's all about the scale of the market. Climbers are still pretty fringe even with our talk of the sport going mainstream. Climbing will, I think, always have fewer participants than these other sports/games--at least I hope so. Gyms have really changed the scene, however. But, at least with outside climbing, it's pretty intense with sometimes serious consequences for mistakes--unlike basketball or video gaming. You might sprain an ankle on the court or get a sore thumb yanking the joystick. (Er, that last predicate was not meant to sound dirty...)
BAd
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
Wilds of New Mexico
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Nov 11, 2017 - 07:48am PT
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Most pro athletes in outdoor sports are more or less low paid employees in the company’s marketing department. There are not really that many sports that people will actually pay money to watch as spectators.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Nov 11, 2017 - 09:04am PT
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I don't understand the skateboarding thing - where's the money?
Skateboards are cheap, their clothing t-shirts.
Seems like a fringe sport with a few low tax bracket participants who generally live at home with their parents.
Skiing, motocross, video games, I get that - skateboards - no - fuk no...
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Nov 11, 2017 - 09:52am PT
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Yeah, hard to see where the bank is in skating. Those companies must be laundering drug money.
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chainsaw
Trad climber
CA
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Nov 11, 2017 - 10:59am PT
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I kindof relate to the guy Knish in "Rounders." He played the odds and worked a daily grind at Texas holdem to make ends meet. No glory. He got to meet a few high rollers now and then. My daily grind was to sharpen a chainsaw, answer phones, give estimates, write contracts then go out and strap on the spurs or throw a rope. I spent as much time dragging brush on the ground as climbing. In the gym it was basically the same. Silkscreen shirts, make travel plans, teach classes. Belay hundreds of kids. Set a route. Climb routes to impress clients and onlookers. Put up a toprope. Guide outdoors. I got to know alot of the top pros. I got to climb with a few people on the cutting edge. My trad partner for many years was on Northface A5 team and West Coast Pimp. But I was never a rockstar. Just a daily grinder like Knish. But I made a living off climbing for 20 years. Am I a pro climber? I dont think so. Just a grunt making a buck doing what I love. Made $225 for four hours work Wednesday. I will probably start guiding again next spring....
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originalpmac
Mountain climber
Timbers of Fennario
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Nov 11, 2017 - 12:06pm PT
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It's all about the perks.
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