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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Oct 13, 2017 - 09:32am PT
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Why aren’t those guys pulling over the Harley riders who are really spoiling the parks?
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Nick Danger
Ice climber
Arvada, CO
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Oct 13, 2017 - 09:48am PT
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"We as a nation need to ditch the us vs them mentality"
T Hocking for the win. This is the best political comment I have seen this year.
Thanx
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IntheFog
climber
Mostly the next place
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Oct 13, 2017 - 10:02am PT
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Not to be pedantic, but...it seems to be a stretch to think 18 U.S. Code § 912 applies here. The text of the statute clearly says that someone has to do two things to violate the statute:
First, they have to "pretend" to be a Fed;
Second, they have to either: a) "Act" like a fed; OR b) Use the pretense to get someone else's valuables.
I don't see how simply wearing a hat qualifies as "pretending" to be a Fed. And from the OP's story, I don't see that the kid was "acting" like a Fed, or stealing people's stuff.
Maybe there's some law that says you can't wear an NPS hat unless you work for the NPS, but it isn't 18 U.S. Code § 912.
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Oct 13, 2017 - 10:15am PT
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Hell man, head out to the Ranger Station and confront the "men" in a simplified manner of wanting to know their names and badge numbers and take it from there. Balls to the Wall approach and have some fun with it. They are the ones in the uniform and have a set of official rules to play by.
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the idle rich
climber
Estes Park, CO
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Oct 13, 2017 - 10:18am PT
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This is the applicable statute for wearing or using the NPS insignia (Arrowhead) without permission. Despite what is written here, you would have to be a total idiot or incredibly bored to take the time to enforce this in the situation that was related. A bit of common sense would go a long way.
Title 36: Parks, Forests, and Public Property
PART 11—ARROWHEAD AND PARKSCAPE SYMBOLS
Contents
§11.1 Definitions.
§11.2 Uses.
§11.3 Power to revoke.
§11.4 Penalties.
Authority: 54 U.S.C. 100101, 100751.
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§11.1 Definitions.
(a) The term Arrowhead Symbol, as used in this part, refers to the insignia of the National Park Service prescribed as its official symbol by notice published in the Federal Register of March 15, 1962 (27 FR 2486). That symbol, use of which had been limited by notice published in the Federal Register of October 22, 1968 (33 FR 15605-06), has been reinstated as the Service's official emblem. The term “Parkscape Symbol,” as used in this part, is the same insignia referred to in the Federal Register notice of October 22, 1968, as the “National Park Service Symbol.” The “Parkscape Symbol” has been prescribed as the official tie tack or pin to be worn by all National Park Service uniformed employees. Moreover, the tie tack or pin may be worn by employees of the Service when not in uniform as a part of their civilian attire.
(b) The term commercial use as used in the regulations of this part refers to use of the “Arrowhead Symbol” or the “Parkscape Symbol” on souvenirs or other items of merchandise presented for sale to the public by private enterprise operating either within or outside of areas of the National Park System.
(c) The term noncommercial use as used in the regulations of this part refers to nongovernmental use of the “Arrowhead Symbol” or the “Parkscape Symbol” other than as described in paragraph (c) of this section.
[35 FR 8734, June 5, 1970, as amended at 62 FR 30234, June 3, 1997]
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§11.2 Uses.
The Director may permit the reproduction, manufacture, sale, and use of the “Arrowhead Symbol” or the “Parkscape Symbol”, with or without charge, for uses that will contribute to purposes of education and conservation as they relate to the program of the National Park Service. All other uses are prohibited.
[36 FR 16508, Aug. 21, 1971]
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§11.3 Power to revoke.
Permission granted under this part by the Director may be rescinded by him at any time upon a finding that the use of the symbol or symbols involved is injurious to their integrity or inconsistent with the purposes of the National Park Service in the fields of conservation and recreation, or for disregard of any limitations or terms contained in the permits.
[35 FR 8734, June 5, 1970, as amended at 36 FR 16508, Aug. 21, 1971]
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§11.4 Penalties.
Whoever manufactures, sells or uses the “Arrowhead Symbol” or the “Parkscape Symbol” in violation of the regulations of this part shall be subject to the penalties prescribed in section 701 of title 18 of the United States Code.
[35 FR 8734, June 5, 1970, as amended at 36 FR 16508, Aug. 21, 1971]
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Polebridge, Montana
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Oct 13, 2017 - 10:49am PT
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I have two older friends that like to wear their hats and wander into campfire parties with lots of younger kids. One says FBI the other DEA. Always freaks them out.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Oct 13, 2017 - 11:24am PT
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Picture of hat?
Picture of route?
Picture of bloody meat hands after wards?
Just sayin...
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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Oct 13, 2017 - 11:36am PT
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It sucks to be given such a hard time about something as trivial as a hat.
Fortunately the couple encounters I've had with NPS rangers were the opposite of that, though not at Devil's Tower.
A few summers ago we had a campsite in Tuolumne Meadows, were confused when paying for the dates, and when we got back to camp that evening someone else's tent was in the spot and all our stuff was gone. It turned out we hadn't paid for the final night we expected to be there. A Park employee made a radio call for us and in about 10 minutes a ranger appeared. He and another ranger had packed up all our stuff and put it in the shipping container at the campground entrance. Everything was neatly arranged, and even the dehydrated food we'd left soaking in the bear box was intact and still in the pots. The ranger helped us move all the stuff to our car, and I noticed his name tag and that he was Jesse McGahey, who'd been a climbing ranger a few years earlier in the Valley. He even offered us an emergency camp spot as it was so late, but we declined and just drove out of the Park to bivy. Super polite, professional and very nice guy! Talk about giving the NPS a good name.
The other incident that comes to mind was driving back very late through the Meadows and getting pulled over for speeding in the 25mph zone near Lembert Dome. The ranger asked if I knew how fast I'd been going and if I realized I was 10mph over. I apologized, said that we'd just come out from some long days on the eastside, and that I was pretty tired and just trying to get home. He asked what we'd climbed and seemed genuinely interested. We told him, and he said to slow down as the speed limit was in place due to so many bears being hit. He let me go with just a warning, when he could so easily have given me a ticket.
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Daphne
Trad climber
Northern California
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Oct 13, 2017 - 11:42am PT
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In August Jaybro, Charlie and I spent a bit of time on a belay ledge with a Devils Tower climbing ranger and he was so wonderful. He and his partner were surveying the bat colonies on the tower. He was funny and kind and smart and suffered through all our questions. However, two other rangers were actually kind of dickish and dismissive.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Oct 13, 2017 - 01:26pm PT
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I have two older friends that like to wear their hats and wander into campfire parties with lots of younger kids. One says FBI the other DEA. Always freaks them out.
Yeah that's the vibe I was getting from the OP . . .
Maybe wearing the hat was a bit of a joke, maybe a little fraudulent misrepresentation (I would imagine you get treated a little better by the hoi polloi if they think you're a government employee on duty--maybe that he was a climbing a ranger or something).
The LEOs likely have a lot of experience dealing with this sort of thing and told the story of ripping off the badge of the other guy to try to impress on the young man that impersonating a government official is generally a bad idea (regardless of whether he was technically a committing crime--seems as if it was a bit of an inchoate one if nothing else).
I imagine they adopted the role of the "heavy" to try to scare the young man straight a bit and set him on the right path.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Oct 13, 2017 - 03:30pm PT
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Problem is that LEO's live in a bubble. Often all their friends are LEO and they only interact with us in shitty situations. One of my long time climbing partners is a cop and I can see this happening. he is getting more bitter every year from dealing with all the low lifes at work to the point that they have a hard time seeing and treating the rest of us decently. his mentality is everyone lies to him and everyone is a scumbag that is up to no good. That is what happens when you live by the gun and all your friends live by the gun and there is so much anti cop sentiment in the civilian population right now that you and your co workers reinforce yourselfs that every liberal is an as#@&%e....... Tough spiral and a self fulfilling prophesy. every time you jack up one of those liberal as#@&%es the whole spiral gains downward momentum.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Oct 13, 2017 - 03:38pm PT
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his mentality is everyone lies to him and everyone is a scumbag that is up to no good
They're not?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Oct 13, 2017 - 04:01pm PT
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JB, you well know that my cup is half full, most of the time.
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Denver CO
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Oct 13, 2017 - 04:15pm PT
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I hate to admit this since I would never do anything like this anymore, but ... I used to work selling lab instruments including to the forensic lab of the Connecticut State Police (Dr Lee) who gave me a CT State Police baseball cap. One time I was driving in Connecticut and someone rear-ended me. I put the baseball cap in the back windshield of the car and we waited for the cops. When the state trooper arrived he told me to leave and I think the other guy was put in handcuffs. I was young at the time and would never do anything like that anymore, but in the future I'd recommend putting the NPS cap in the windshield instead of on your head.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Oct 13, 2017 - 04:46pm PT
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Impersonating a nps employee by wearing a hat? Laughable.
DMT
Well how would you impersonate an NPS employee?
That's not really my bag so I wouldn't know, but I think I'd start with the hat and go from there.
This whole thing is sort of a joke (including the fact that the OP was so traumatized by the experience of being warned by seemingly well-meaning LEOs that he had to cry on ST about it), but:
I don't believe it's likely that the son was "just" wearing the hat in the sense that he has a collection of hats and that was just randomly the one he put on.
I think it's much more likely that he figured that at least some people who see him wearing the hat will treat him like a park employee (maybe he gets to cut in line at the start of the route), and he figures if he gets called out on it, he can use the "hey it's just a hat" defense.
I agree that we don't have enough facts to establish that he was committing a crime. But was he headed in that direction? . . . seems like it to me.
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hooblie
climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
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Oct 13, 2017 - 05:05pm PT
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do y'all even internet?$14.99
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c wilmot
climber
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Oct 13, 2017 - 05:48pm PT
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Where can you buy an authentic NPS hat DMT?
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c wilmot
climber
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Oct 13, 2017 - 06:00pm PT
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I can buy a cubs hat anywhere. An official NPS hat ? Nope...
Honestly they might have been concerned other climbing parties would mistake the young man as a climbing ranger.
But the prick attitide was unwarranted
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