Bolting between existing cracks at Suicide rock

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Messages 81 - 100 of total 129 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
BG

Trad climber
JTree & Idyllwild
Oct 10, 2017 - 06:05pm PT
Hi Llama. Thanks for considering removing the bolts.

I've done my fair share of squeeze jobs, but I think a good "rule of thumb" is this: If your fingertips are touching a protectable crack, then you shouldn't be able to lean sideways and clip a bolt, even if you have the ape index of Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. It's a good minimum guideline.

In the hundreds of new routes I've done at JTree and Idyllwild, I've probably violated my own rule for a placement or two, but it's a rule I try to stick to.

Every area and crag is different, but undisputed classics deserve an even wider gap.
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Oct 10, 2017 - 07:00pm PT
Another more succinct way of putting what I was trying to say, Bob
Mike.

climber
Oct 10, 2017 - 08:04pm PT
Thanks, Bob and Donnie.

Hey, Donnie, one time Bob borderline insinuated to me that he would not mind if I added a rivet to one of his routes. I think he was testing me : )
Llama

Big Wall climber
Never close enough to the good stuff, CA
Oct 10, 2017 - 08:14pm PT
Haha perhaps he was!
bootysatva

Trad climber
Idyllwild / Joshua Tree Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 10, 2017 - 09:06pm PT
Strong work community.

I reached over and touched two of the bolts when I followed Gritstone Dave up the route.
They are really nice stainless / stainles , shinny bolts.

Hubbard- I'll show you some of those routes you asked about.

Rotting Johny- see you at the green church.

Llama- I would love to help you with that.

Alois- you make a mean paella!

E
RhoadsClimbs

Trad climber
CA
Oct 11, 2017 - 04:18am PT
Llama, I am wondering more about your motivation. Why was a TR not satisfactory enough? Why did you want to lead it, could you expand your thoughts?

Also, for the record, I would be all for adding bolts if they are drilled from a stance, ala the local ethic. Times are coming where consulting the FA may no longer be possible so I think some kind of new ethical standard and protocol is needed for the future.

*Also, I would want this route to stay if there was going to be any marks left over after a chop. I think our point has been made and to create scars is pointless.
Llama

Big Wall climber
Never close enough to the good stuff, CA
Oct 11, 2017 - 07:38am PT
Rhoads, I think the intentions were explained well enough earlier in the thread.

the hardware will be removed. I've replaced lots of hardware over the years and have a good setup for that so the impact will be quite minimal.
RhoadsClimbs

Trad climber
CA
Oct 12, 2017 - 04:54am PT
Instead of removing the bolts how about replacing the bolts on P2 of Fred? That would bring more to the community in my opinion.
mooch

Trad climber
Tribal Base Camp (Kernville Annex)
Oct 12, 2017 - 11:11am PT
Pulling is better and more ecological.

Unless they are Rawls or Hilti removables or something similar, one can one hope they overdrilled and they can be slammed home and covered.

Edit: Thanks Llama! More importantly, you were transparent and laid it out for all to see. Huge respect!
Mike.

climber
Oct 12, 2017 - 11:23am PT
Instead of removing the bolts how about replacing the bolts on P2 of Fred?

Better still, do both.

Don't be afraid to chip in, Rhoads.
RhoadsClimbs

Trad climber
CA
Oct 13, 2017 - 04:20am PT
What's the best way to pop those old 1/4 bolts?
Mike.

climber
Oct 13, 2017 - 06:15am PT
This is a good primer:

http://www.safeclimbing.org/education/howtorebolt.htm


Taking time getting buttonhead removal started pays dividends in impact minimization. It's prudent to have some experience placing/replacing before heading up on a route; a dry run on some obscure chunk of rock works. If a proper "tuning fork" is hanging you up, you can carefully use the claw of a form setter's or framer's hammer in conjunction with another hammer. Consider taking a small piece of sheet metal, etc, that you can use between the claw and rock to avoid scarring when tapping or prying.

Greg/ASCA can probably supply your hardware. If not, I can bro the bolts/hangers and drill bits; you'll need the drill holder, etc. A punch and tube of Insta-Crete marine epoxy are key if the bolt shaft breaks; you can tap it into the rock and disguise the hole with epoxy.

You could team up with Donnie and whack it out quickly. He probably has the trinkets and technical know-how. No shame at all in leaving it to someone else if preferred. TIA for helping, Rhoads.
Hubbard

climber
San Diego
Oct 13, 2017 - 08:01pm PT
I was replacing an old buttonhead 1/4 inch, prying with a claw hammer with apiece of wood to protect the rock. All of a sudden the buttonhead popped out with a ping and flew by my face like a bullet and off into the void. If it would have hit me in the eye, I wouldn't have one anymore. Moral; wear goggles.
bootysatva

Trad climber
Idyllwild / Joshua Tree Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 15, 2017 - 10:17am PT
I was so impressed with the communication on this thread, and another poster asked what routes I have done up there in the past, so I'll offer up this one:

In the early 70's +\- I led the route between Winter Solstice and The Hernia. I placed nuts in the crack and I drilled two 1/4" bolts above the crack. (Getting to the crack has gotten several grades harder since then).
Kevin Powell and Darrel Hensel were furious and stated that the route had been soloed by the Chongo Brothers ( no relation to Congo Chuck ).
It got chopped imidiatly in a sloppy way by an annonomys chopper.

It has been rap bolted since then with bolts above and below the crack.

I never drilled another bolt on Suicide or Tahquitz after that. ( I have drilled sparingly throughout the San Jacinto's and only to save my ass on a first ascent since then ).

I am curious what y'all think, and who chopped the origional two bolts?

Peace
Ernesto Ale
bootysatva

Trad climber
Idyllwild / Joshua Tree Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 15, 2017 - 10:35am PT
Hubbard-
I replaced a couple of rappel/ belay bolts on top of a spire near Tahquitz about 20 years ago.
20 years earlier I had put some brightly colored 1" tubular slings on the original bolts that had turned white and some points had worn all the way thru from the wind.
Upon the initial prying the old bolts flew! Out and into the void! They came out many times easier than I had expected.

My last years of hauling a hand drill around the back (ish) country, I placed only 1/4" button heads and slung a small wired stopper on the bolt head.
If you see any of those- that's " my " route. We never bailed from one of those so you can assume things go up from there.
I don't carry a drill anymore.
We did not report any of these climbs not to " keep them a secret " but to leave the mystery and adventure intact. ( also, we had many other passions and projects and in my case lawyers and ex wives to pay off.)

I have climbed Snow Creek Wall about 5 times and man! There is a ton of multi pitch up there! I have not touched that area yet. Have seen some tat on the walls tho.

I currently am exploring a crag that takes two hrs to hike to without a pack! I stashed a rack and rope up there a year ago. Lots of old bolts up there from a guy named Paul Moro? And other folks. I like not knowing how hard or who put it up sometimes.
Ernesto
bootysatva

Trad climber
Idyllwild / Joshua Tree Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 15, 2017 - 10:40am PT
Llama:
We should go up and lead your route and try and avoid some or all of the bolts by using gear.
Maybe one or more of your bolts are warranted?
Just have a lot of respect for how you handled this even tho not all the posts were compassionate.
Ernesto
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Oct 15, 2017 - 03:58pm PT
Ernesto, you must know Warren Egbert? I climbed with him up there some in the 80's. He was doing some routes on a crag all the way up and over from Humber, maybe kind of east s/e. I never went out there with him, not for lack of an invite. I totally lost track of him quite a while ago. Do you have any idea what he's been up to?
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Oct 15, 2017 - 11:18pm PT
the route had been soloed by the Chongo Brothers ( no relation to Congo Chuck ).


The chongo brothers? Do you mean, Rich and Dave?
If so then they are related to chongo chuck.
Alois

Trad climber
Idyllwild, California
Oct 16, 2017 - 07:41am PT
Ernesto

The guys who did all that climbing up there in the late 70s and early 80s were Paul Morrill (SP?) and Bob Harvey. They lived in Pine Cove and put up lot of the routes in the backcountry. Bob was killed on New Zealand's Mt Cook in the late 80s. Paul lives in Colorado.
Sewellymon

climber
.....in a single wide......
Oct 16, 2017 - 08:03am PT
Kris- last I spoke w Warren Egbert (7 or 8 yr ago?) - he was living very happily outside in Moab.

Let me see if I can scurry up a phone # and PM via FB.
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