OT (obviously) So Tillerson denies Trump is a moron

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Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 4, 2017 - 12:10pm PT
You cannot make this up.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41502533

And for those who want proof, just Google it. Not that I trust Google.

I love it. The hypocrisy of Trump.

Our country is falling apart, and some of you who support Trump, applaud that? By your tacit support?

I do not give a flying eff, if this post/thread is not climbing related. When the corporate powers that are start shutting down lands where there is good climbing, then will you notice?

First they came for my chalk bag, I did not notice, then they came for my rack, I did not notice, then they came for my rope, I did not notice.

Then they came for me.

With all due respect.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Oct 4, 2017 - 12:33pm PT
Tillerson reportedly said what is apparent to all who still retain reasoning power and good judgement. It is chilling for me to live in a country where 35 to 40 percent of the people think that sociopath is doing a good job.
bobinc

Trad climber
Portland, Or
Oct 4, 2017 - 12:41pm PT
Not sure they think he is doing a good job. They do like having a white guy back in the White House; I think that's what 'approval' means to them.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Oct 4, 2017 - 12:42pm PT
Just because 60% think he isn't doesn't mean he isn't, it just means they don't think he is. And since all Americans are stoopid materialsts then it could mean that he's doing a great job.
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Oct 4, 2017 - 12:50pm PT
Tillerson did not deny that Trump is a moron.

He was overheard calling Trump a F ing moron

and when he was asked to confirm he said that he said we must move on from petty things

a non denial denial, aka All the President's Men
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Oct 4, 2017 - 12:51pm PT
I am pretty sure that everyone that has worked with tRump directly has said the same thing in private. It is pretty obvious what type of man he is. But they still keep suckling on that fetid teat regardless.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 4, 2017 - 12:58pm PT
It is chilling for me to live in a country where 35 to 40 percent of the people think that sociopath is doing a good job.

Yes Jim, we can see that, but perhaps other have blinders on their eyes. Edit, by all definitions Trump is at least a sociopath. Does the Goldwater rule apply here?

This is more important than a 5.13, or who did that red point, or free soloing El Cap (I still have to get my head around that, wow!).

We are climbers, many more than I am. But this is a climber's forum, not a climbing forum as such, and I welcome that (since 2005). The climbers I have known and climbed with are intelligent people.

Chris has allowed us to speak our minds.

Did I start this as an anti-Ttrump thread? Yes, because the guy is not out there in left field, the guy is just OUT THERE, nuts, drinking his own kool-aid.

Look at his behaviour in the past, in the past says it all. If those who want change, and yes it is needed, they support this guy, then they are drunk on the same kool aid.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 4, 2017 - 01:22pm PT
Oh I saw Malemute already refers to this in the "Not a fan of Trump" thread.

Still, I will keep this thread alive.

And you know Trump supporters, you are welcome to your views. But time is against you.

The guy will self-destruct, along with your dreams. The world is not a singular object. Get over it.
Don Lauria

Trad climber
Bishop, CA
Oct 4, 2017 - 01:32pm PT
Trump is, at best, an embarrassment to any thinking American. At worst, he's a danger to the planet.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Oct 4, 2017 - 01:57pm PT
apparently Tillerson was going to quit, but had to be talked out of quitting by Pence.

I am not a fan of any of trump's cabinet members, but Tillerson, Kelly, and Mattis seem to be the best of the lot.
Tan Slacks

climber
Joshua Tree
Oct 4, 2017 - 02:28pm PT
Tillerson was not talked into staying by Pence.

Tillerson swore never to quit because he is part of a secret Cadre to save our country from war and destruction.

The members all agree that tRump is an F'ing Moron. Pence unfortunately is not a member of this Cadre and can not be trusted. Tillerson, Mattis and Kelly along with others are protecting us all from extinction. Sadly I know this to be true. Those that support tRump are insignificant in the big picture and can mostly ignored.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Oct 4, 2017 - 03:37pm PT
"I think I have great support, or have had great support from that community. I got a lot of votes."--Trump

Trump is saying he got a "lot of votes" from the transgender community. Which, in case you were wondering, is not quantifiable in any way.

Moronic hypocrite.
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Oct 4, 2017 - 04:59pm PT
makes sense that Trump flew in to Puerto Rico, threw some paper towels and got the hell out of there

why waste your time on anything more than a photo op

after all, no one in Puerto Rico voted for him, they vote only local issues not Federal

and, PR is an Island, in a really really big ocean, believe me...repeat again
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Oct 4, 2017 - 05:58pm PT
Norton, they do vote in the Presidential Primaries. They voted 70% for Rubio on the Republican side. But more than twice as many voted for Clinton, on the Dem side.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Oct 4, 2017 - 08:03pm PT
These threads just fizzle away like conversation of nice weather. I guess everyone agrees our President is a f*#king bafoon.
WBraun

climber
Oct 4, 2017 - 08:43pm PT
Nothing but brainwashed st00pid people here who wouldn't have clue how to fix anything even if you got rid of the st00pid puppet Trump.

The puppet masters and the spooks run the show and NOT Trump.

They will always be there no matter who is the POTUS puppet ....
zBrown

Ice climber
Oct 4, 2017 - 09:05pm PT
I agree with el contra to that these threads are mostly a waste of time so at least they ought able ebtertaining, no?

Who would continue to work for a moron other than amoneygrubber,née crook?


Thank Apple for thes spellings

crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Oct 4, 2017 - 09:06pm PT
Have another on me, Jim. Neat.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Oct 4, 2017 - 09:16pm PT
Here’s to personal freedom.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Oct 4, 2017 - 09:26pm PT
drF

Trad climber
usa
Oct 5, 2017 - 07:52am PT
The media got it wrong...as usual

Tillerson was referring to Patrick Sawyer as the moron
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Oct 5, 2017 - 09:15am PT
NBC News Exclusive Report; Tillerson refers to Trump as a Fuking Moron during a meeting.


Big fuking deal. I have more respect for Rex now. But really, we already knew this (Trump is a moron). Let Rex do his job already.
Nuglet

Trad climber
Orange Murica!
Oct 5, 2017 - 09:25am PT
Trump is a F-ing moron

but he is still winning 4/10 peoples

that makes 4/10 MuriKKKans also f-ing morons
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Oct 5, 2017 - 09:42am PT
He's not a moron. Slightly above average I'd wager. Probably 110ish...

He's also not a sociopath. A narcissist sure but the anyone who would want that nightmare puppet position would have to be somewhere along that scale.

Trump wants people to love him, that's why he's preoccupied with ratings of all sorts. He was much better off in his former life representing his own Vegas-style brand. Much simpler there.

Werner was right, the puppet in chief doesn't have any real power here. The MIC and it's financial supporters rule the empire.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 5, 2017 - 09:49am PT
drF, if I am a moron, then it takes one to know one. So yeah, I may be a moron, that is why I can see the Donald as a fellow moron.

And you are___, the blank is yours to fill in drF.

Fear, I am not a human psychologist, I studied black bears and coyotes in the field. I am an animal psychologist (well, an ethologist). But I think if one was to go by the clinical definition of a sociopath, Trump would fit it to a t.

Slightly above average I'd wager. Probably 110ish...
You are equating IQ with a personality disorder, as such. I would think that IQ has a small part to play in a disorder such as being a sociopath. But then again, I could be wrong.

A psychopath? No, not Trump. A sociopath? Most likely by his behaviour and actions. Again, I have limited training in dealing with the human psyche, outside of being an observer of human behaviour and thought.

And drF, you won't get a rise from me with your ad hominem remark, outside of what I have posted. Get a clue. Sometimes you have posted some intelligent stuff, keep that up but if it pleases you to insult people, there is nothing I can do.

And just to pre-empt, yes I have insulted fellow posters on this forum, and have been the ass in doing so. I hope I am learning.
Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Oct 5, 2017 - 10:45am PT
Tillerson is doing what is known as "virtue signalling" which is a way of announcing to the political elites and the media that he is really one of them.

He'll be fired in due course, deep bass voice and all.

Too many swamp creatures in the Trump Administration with or without Lord Tillerson.

Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 5, 2017 - 12:06pm PT
Wow is that for real Locker. Is that step up or down from handing out Playdo to Katrina victims?
How some of you still supports this guy, baffles me.

and Werner, stop with the stoopidd American shite. That is all you can seem to muster as a troll. We know that you are not a nameless troll, many of us know you. But what are you contributing to the debate?

To show how clever you are? To acknowledge corproractocracy?

You have done well in SAR, and my hat is off to your efforts, but now you are just another gobshite like I am. Your words mean nothing to me.
TWP

Trad climber
Mancos, CO & Bend, OR
Oct 5, 2017 - 12:36pm PT
"It is chilling for me to live in a country where 35 to 40 percent of the people think that sociopath is doing a good job."

Quoting Donini, J., upthread.

This is the gravamen of my Trumpian angst.

How could I possibly have been so wrong in my expectations of my fellow Americans?

I really thought the country would come through and prove its good sense and overwhelmingly election Clinton as our first female President - backing up our goodwill-restoring action in electing our first Afro-American President after the Bushian disaster.

I still have not reconciled my failure of judgment and come to any conclusion how I should proceed henceforth in regards to my opinions and expectations of America and its politicians and polity.

Though Warner may well have made the correction diagnosis of the problem with his "Americans-are-stupid" hypothesis, I like to go from problem to solution; so I am looking for answers and wishing someone could help us collectively see our way past this quintessentially existential angst. Thusly I remain, naively optimistic - for even hoping their is a solution in this realm, the material world of samsara.
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Oct 5, 2017 - 12:46pm PT


https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/rex-tillerson-says-he-remains-fully-committed-to-morons-agenda

Rex Tillerson told reporters on Wednesday that he remains “fully committed to this moron’s agenda.”

“There will always be people in Washington eager to stir controversy when there is none,” Tillerson said, at a hastily called press conference at the State Department. “I am standing here today to tell you that I am on the same page as this idiot.”

Elaborating on that point, the former oil-company C.E.O. stressed that he and Trump were in agreement on a broad range of issues. “From North Korea to Iran to China, there is no daylight between me and this imbecile,” he said.

Tillerson also took pains to deny that he was ever close to resigning from his Cabinet post. “When I promise a cretin that I am going to do a job, I stay until the job is finished,” he said.

Asked to confirm reports that Vice-President Mike Pence had to persuade him not to quit last summer, the Secretary of State refused. “Let’s leave that other moron out of this,” he said.
TWP

Trad climber
Mancos, CO & Bend, OR
Oct 5, 2017 - 12:54pm PT
It's not. See my post upthread.
dirtbag

climber
Oct 5, 2017 - 01:00pm PT
"It is chilling for me to live in a country where 35 to 40 percent of the people think that sociopath is doing a good job."

For some, I would imagine it boils down to a reluctance to admit they made a mistake voting for him a year ago. Partisanship runs deep. For a few others, it probably amounts to wishful thinking that things will get better. And, I would suspect that many have simply not paid much attention. Also, the economy is going well and we haven’t yet faced a major trump induced calamity except Puerto Rico, but Puerto Rico is at most an afterthought to many of his supporters.

Most of his 35-40 % probably support him because he channels and then gives a voice to their anger and frustration. They are less interested in accomplishments (when pressed, they list only a few) or actual governing competence. But, he pisses off liberals and the elites (which admittedly, he is good at doing), and he sticks up for white people, hence he’s doing a bang up job. We are witnessing what happens when grievance politics attains power. It’s depressing, and the main reason why you can’t really discuss substantive issues with die hard trumpkins—they don’t care.
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Oct 5, 2017 - 01:11pm PT
DirtyDirtBag, your last 2 sentences (actually the entire last paragraph but..) hit the nail on the head for my experience the last half year and they are being tempered with time.
WBraun

climber
Oct 5, 2017 - 01:18pm PT
Yep .... dirtbag nails it on that post.

Much better than saying Trump sucks every day by rest of the crew ....
TWP

Trad climber
Mancos, CO & Bend, OR
Oct 5, 2017 - 01:19pm PT
Dirtbag:

You nailed it - in the sense that you put more "flesh and bones" on the skeleton of Werner's distillated message: "Americans are stupid."

Not sure you've provided a solution, but keep trying. You're doing well so far.

P.S. OT - Are you really a Dirtbag? Explain.
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Oct 5, 2017 - 01:39pm PT
We are witnessing what happens when grievance politics attains power. It’s depressing, and the main reason why you can’t really discuss substantive issues with die hard trumpkins—they don’t care.
I think someone expressed this point in an op-ed piece in the New York Times: the biggest damage that Trump has inflicted on the country is the absolute bottoming out of what we expect from a U.S. President.
vlani

Trad climber
mountain view, ca
Oct 5, 2017 - 03:08pm PT
Why all that Trump hype? Why it is Trump who is embarrassment to the country? Was a Trump/Clinton ballot not embarrassment? Was 'corporations are people too' not embarrassment? What is that in late US politics that does not embarrass you?
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Oct 5, 2017 - 03:16pm PT
https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/puerto-rico-issues-travel-ban-on-malignant-narcissists

SAN JUAN (The Borowitz Report)—Calling the move an “urgent response to recent unfortunate events,” Puerto Rico has issued a sweeping travel ban on malignant narcissists, effective immediately.

Starting on Wednesday, Customs and Border Protection officials at Puerto Rico’s ports of entry will be equipped with the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM–V) issued by the American Psychiatric Association, and will be instructed to look for symptoms of malignant narcissism in those attempting to enter.

“If port officials encounter a visitor who has a pompous and arrogant demeanor, needs the constant admiration of others, and is unwilling to empathize with others’ feelings, wishes, or needs, that visitor will be denied entry,” a Puerto Rican government statement read.

Puerto Rico took the forceful action after an incident on Tuesday, in which a man with narcissistic-personality disorder gained entry to the island and inexplicably hurled projectiles at unwitting Puerto Ricans.

“We had to do something,” one government official said. “Enough is enough.”
AP

Trad climber
Calgary
Oct 5, 2017 - 05:41pm PT
He might not even be the smartest person in that trailer park above
This must be absolutely the worst White House for anyone to work in
Climberdude

Trad climber
Clovis, CA
Oct 5, 2017 - 06:20pm PT
Tillerson is just stating what should be obvious to everyone, he even did not deny it.
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Cascade Mountains and Monterey Bay
Oct 5, 2017 - 11:13pm PT
Werner knows more about what is going on than most of the rest of you put together. This is true whether you are looking at climbing and SAR or world events or spiritual knowledge.

It would be much wiser for you all to honor him as a teacher and ask him for additional knowledge to further your understanding.

Instead you goad him with inane comments and criticisms so that his frustrated response is the insulting statements you have come to expect from him.

His insulting statements still reveal more knowledge and understanding than much of what passes for commentary on this forum.

All things considered he is being a gentleman about it.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 6, 2017 - 01:30am PT
So Tom Cochrane, master, should I genuflect?

Werner knows more about what is going on than most of the rest of you put together.

Tom, that is such a BS statement. Werner has seen a lot of pain and injury as a SAR person, but many Supertopians have also experienced life.

Tom, I feel sorry for you. I know you do not want my pity, but I'll light a candle for you, actually I never go to church. So when I walk on the beach I will say to the wind, Tom Cochrane, poor soul, help him.

You are deluded.

I started this thread to debate about a man who sits in the West Wing. If he is his own man, or controlled, if he is a puppet or the Deep State has captured him, or whatever. But he is the face of our country.

I admit, I do not live in America. Probably never will again, I am happy where I am. But I am still an American (since 1640, so to speak). I still care about the US, big time. I just do not live there. Trump (his administration and policies) will affect you more than me, but they will still have a huge ripple effect.

I like Werner, but unlike you, I do not bow to his sentiment or deify him like you seem to. He is no yogi or yoda. And this thread is not about him. It is about a president who seems to have no clue.

And indeed, about the people who put him there. And yes, I think Dirtbag nailed it in the post above.

I am not saying that Dirtbag said this by the way, but he did put it quite succinctly on why, seemingly, the voters put Trump in power.

Trump is just a sign of a dysfunctional society, of a dysfunctional nation. Sometimes being on the outside looking in, sheds some light. I am not the beacon, but I do think.

Putin is not a clown, nor are those in Beijing. They see a weakness. And again, I do not want to make this us against them. We all Iive on the same planet (yeah, I just realised that), there are dynamics.

We have a president who is short on, just about everything.

I have worked on the nationals, I know that the corporate world has taken over journalism. But there are still some true voices out there.

EDIT

We are climbers (yes I still do, not at the level I would like though, but it is my first love.) But this is a climber's forum. How many of you have sat around a campfire at C4 and just talked climbing, especially when the beer and wine was flowing and the air smelt like "herb". Politics and sport never came into the equation? (1973-1976, off and on, I am one of the nameless ones. I did free solo the Heart, but nobody took notice, hah hah. I climbed with Charlie a couple of times, how he climbed the Shield, is legend.)

I understand that some may think this is a lark. Why get so serious?

Why get my knickers in a twist? Good question. I have no answer. Well, I do, but...

EDIT

And while I wait for the plumber to come to install a new shower, I reflect, is Tom a Troll? Am I getting a sweat up over some juvenile posting (what was his name? AJ or something his 'dad' posted as... I forget) who just may be a WUM? Tom are you a windup merchant?

I don't know, I just sold some work, the plumber is now arriving, it is a beautiful day and the beach is 60 meters away, and inviting. Aggie, the pup (she has grown, everybody loves her) is straining at the leash, so to speak, Betty is off killing mice (she dragged one in last night, yeck), there is very, very little climbing down here (maybe California does beckon).

And this is now over 12 years of me making a fool on the Taco Stand. And I love it.

Best wishes to all.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 6, 2017 - 03:38am PT
And by the way, I have lost a lot of mementos in the many moves (five countries) I have made. Careless of me, though twice boxes were stolen off moving vans. My clarinet, passed down from my brothers. I just had it recorked. (that took a while, spell check kept changing it on me re-corked is not recorded).

I had a 1948 Ford pickup with a home made camper on back. For reasons, to be cheap, it had a psychedelic paint job (caused me trouble in Manteca and Escalaon, and the Valley EDIT police officers did not like the patterns).

I parked it in Camp Four, Bridwell loved it, so he told me. It stuck out like a sore thumb. I was not trying to make a statement, I was 19-20 and the paint job just happened. I am no radical, though many teachers would dispute that.

I don't suppose any of you may have photos of it. It was my C4 home (as well as my tent) for a while.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Oct 6, 2017 - 07:42am PT
Dirtbag is right.
Werner is right.
Patrick Sawyer is Right.
Tom Cochrane is right.
Lex Tillerdone is way Right.
I'm right.
Trump Does Suck.
Every single day.

Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Oct 6, 2017 - 07:45am PT
and so on...
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Oct 6, 2017 - 07:55am PT
It’s depressing, and the main reason why you can’t really discuss substantive issues with die hard trumpkins—they don’t care.

And once you start talking about trump to one of his supporters, they quit listening.
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Oct 6, 2017 - 08:00am PT
And further more, and on & on, for what it's worth,
Choices (forced by propagandize information Fake & real);=\) have consequencesIf only 'capping' yourself were also a symptom of the personality dis-order that now hobbles this world

Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 6, 2017 - 09:27am PT
Patrick Sawyer is Right.

Wade, I see your point, and yes I started this thread, so "point" me out.

But what do all these memes you posted show? Enter the debate and do not rely on others' memes to substantiate your view.

Is Trump a threat or not? Do you support his views and post memes to try and to ridicule those who are asking questions?

I have seen your posts in the past, now prove some substance.

EDIT

And I do await somebody telling me that since I do not live in the US, I should just shut up. And my reply would be, "what planet do you live on?"
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Oct 6, 2017 - 10:54am PT
He is there to distract and they love him for it; they will have to be forced to act to impeach (or whatever) because it takes a caustic individual to distract from what they are trying to accomplish.

Quick example:
Look at new legislation to gut the Wilderness Act - “Sportsmen’s Heritage and Recreational Enhancement (SHARE) Act of 2017”

There are other despicable going-ons, just start poking around and avoid any news related to the prez and instead, focus on congress and what they are working on.
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Oct 6, 2017 - 11:52am PT
Hey BJ, it is a different bill:

https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/2406

I'll have to re-read it and point out the areas of it that would allow changes to how we manage wilderness now. I'm not blowing you (bad pun, not intended!!)off but I can't remember and have Friday deadlines, oh and a feeble mind!
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Oct 6, 2017 - 12:39pm PT
Ooops, my bad, thanks for the clarification BJ; I'll have to gut my own spewings to a greater degree next time.
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Oct 6, 2017 - 12:58pm PT
I have to get back to work here too, but re:

Look at new legislation to gut the Wilderness Act - “Sportsmen’s Heritage and Recreational Enhancement (SHARE) Act of 2017”
Not sure how that bill guts the Wilderness Act

How the Sportsmen’s Heritage and Recreational Enhancement (SHARE) Act of 2017 Undermines the Wilderness Act:

http://wildernesswatch.org/images/wild-issues/2017/07-2017-WW-Analysis-SHARE-Act.pdf

excerpt:
The discussion draft of the SHARE Act would give hunting, fishing, recreational shooting, and fish and wildlife management top priority in Wilderness, rather than protecting the areas’ wilderness character, as has been the case for over 50 years.

This bill would allow endless, extensive habitat manipulations in Wilderness under the guise of “wildlife conservation” and for providing hunting, fishing, and recreational shooting experiences.

It would allow the construction of “temporary” roads to facilitate such uses and would allow the construction of dams, buildings, or other structures within Wildernesses. It would exempt all of these actions from National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA) review.

Finally, the SHARE Act would remove Wilderness Act prohibitions for agency managers against motor vehicle use for any management activities related to fishing, hunting, or recreational shooting, or for any wildlife conservation activities .
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 6, 2017 - 01:28pm PT
So these past few days, indeed, weeks, Aggie has been more feisty and less cooperative. She (border collie/lab) is turning three. About an adolescent for a dog.

I never had children. But I was once a teenager (yeah, really).

Research shows that when a kid reaches 14 (perhaps a bit younger with a girl, they mature faster), their brain turns to a sort of, mush, let's call it. Apparently it is around that age that a kid thinks they know everything.

When I was 14 I told my mom I was the smartest person on the planet. Then, when I was 15, what a downer to know that I was not anywhere near the smartest, by a long stretch. It put a damper on things. (I was still leading 5.9 though, now seven year olds are leading that).

Aggie is at that difficult age (I am a trained ethologist, I do not believe in Adam and Eve). If one believes in evolution, are the animals not similar to us? I mean, Aggie acting the brat, like a 14-year-old. Like an adolescent.

So, we have a president, who seems to be going through a very late adolescence. Very late. Do we pamper him, "poor darling, you'll get over it in a year or so", or do we slap him. What would a good parent do?
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 6, 2017 - 02:07pm PT
Hi Dwain, no beer tonight or wine, my budget does not allow it. And no, I am not as smart as you are. And are you as smart as Trump?

He has four bankruptcies. You are on your first, right? Keep it up.

EDIT
Dwain, I am not here to spar with you.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 6, 2017 - 02:33pm PT
So despite Cosmic trying to diss me, I see a clown throwing out paper towels. If it was not so pathetic I would laugh.

Oh, I should shut up, I do not live in America. I get emails.
WBraun

climber
Oct 6, 2017 - 02:38pm PT
Trump is the Trojan horse that the criminals rode in on.

You clown American politards here have no clue who those criminals are.

Trump doesn't need to be smart.

The criminals run everything from afar where you can't even see or know them unless you research this from outside of mainstream media (MSM).

MSM has no clue who these people are either.

They (MSM) are as st00pid as YOU.

That's why all you nutcase politards are locked onto the trojan horse only.

Meanwhile, the virus spreads invisibly all while you fools stare at Trump all day long ......

(Don't bother replying Pat as we already know all your replies, plus I don't give a sh!t what you think)
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Oct 6, 2017 - 02:48pm PT
Beatrice Fihn: Donald Trump is a moron.
Joe: I think you left out an adjective, I admire your restraint.

lol

https://twitter.com/BeaFihn/status/915598750969712640
drF

Trad climber
usa
Oct 6, 2017 - 02:48pm PT
I'll have to gut my own spewings to a greater degree next time.

That's the theme for all of these stupid politard threads.

You loons say the same sh**t over and over. Regurgitating MSM BS. All day long drooling here dining on Trump Taco's

Apathy in it's most pure form
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 6, 2017 - 02:54pm PT
Okay
chapter IV

Big Wall climber
kinda fluid
Oct 6, 2017 - 04:02pm PT
of all the valiant and beautiful expressions mankind can muster,
america offers the world a government based on greed, ignorance, hate and most of all, fear.

hold your head low, fellow americans, because we now stand crooked, a society limpping towards rehab.
rockermike

Trad climber
Berkeley
Oct 6, 2017 - 07:17pm PT
And to think some of you guys still think adding fluoride to the water has no effect on human intelligence. lol


One story I heard in my deep perusal of youtube alt-news sites (I think it was Paul Craig Roberts?) is that the whole North Korea story is just a front giving the US a cover for getting nukes closer to China. hmmmm
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Oct 6, 2017 - 07:32pm PT
I trace it all back to.....F in the water?
drF

Trad climber
usa
Oct 6, 2017 - 07:54pm PT
^^^^
MSNBC haha. What a joke!!

You really believe that cable BS? You're fugged haha!!
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
Oct 6, 2017 - 07:57pm PT
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Oct 7, 2017 - 11:50am PT
David Brooks, Republican, Aug 5, 2016:
"He cannot be contained because he is psychologically off the chain. With each passing week he displays the classic symptoms of medium-grade mania in more disturbing forms: inflated self-esteem, sleeplessness, impulsivity, aggression and a compulsion to offer advice on subjects he knows nothing about.

His speech patterns are like something straight out of a psychiatric textbook. Manics display something called “flight of ideas.” It’s a formal thought disorder in which ideas tumble forth through a disordered chain of associations. One word sparks another, which sparks another, and they’re off to the races. As one trained psychiatrist said to me, compare Donald Trump’s speaking patterns to a Robin Williams monologue, but with insults instead of jokes.
Trump insults Paul Ryan, undermines NATO and raises the specter of nuclear war. Advisers can’t control Trump’s brain because Trump can’t control it himself.

He also cannot be contained because he lacks the inner equipment that makes decent behavior possible. So many of our daily social interactions depend on a basic capacity for empathy. But Trump displays an absence of this quality.

He looks at the grieving mother of a war hero and is unable to recognize her pain. He hears a crying baby and is unable to recognize the infant’s emotion or the mother’s discomfort. He is told of women being sexually harassed at Fox News and is unable to recognize their trauma.
The same blindness that makes him impervious to global outrage makes it impossible for him to make empathetic connection. Fear is his only bond.
Some people compare Trump to the great authoritarians of history, but that’s wrong. They were generally disciplined men with grandiose plans. Trump is underdeveloped and unregulated.

He is a slave to his own pride, compelled by a childlike impulse to lash out at anything that threatens his fragile identity. He appears to have no ability to experience reverence, which is the foundation for any capacity to admire or serve anything bigger than self, to want to learn about anything beyond self, to want to know and deeply honor the people around you.

Republicans are not going to be able to help the 70-year-old man-child grow up over the next few months. Nor are they going to be able to get him to withdraw from the race. A guy who can raise $82 million mostly in small donations has a passionate niche following.
But they can at least get out of the enabling business. First, they can acknowledge that they are being sucked down a nihilistic whirlpool. Second, they can acknowledge the long-term damage being done to the country and to themselves."
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Oct 7, 2017 - 12:11pm PT
dr f posted

MSNBC haha. What a joke!!

You really believe that cable BS? You're fugged haha!!

ok, make your case that MSNBC is not credible or that their broadcasts are filled with "lies"

I am sure, given your proven powerful intellect, that you will answer in volume with proofs very quickly - but I will check back later
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Cascade Mountains and Monterey Bay
Oct 7, 2017 - 01:05pm PT
Trump is the red cape waved in front of the Bull.

Those of you charging at the red cape should have your moment of truth and start paying attention to the matador and his backers.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Oct 7, 2017 - 01:18pm PT
If the system is rigged how in the hell did we go from Obama to Trump? claiming the news is fake is Trumps fallback position, and we know he is a f*#king moron.
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Oct 7, 2017 - 01:59pm PT
Fu%k that's all we need now if Dump picks Pompeo for replacement.
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Cascade Mountains and Monterey Bay
Oct 7, 2017 - 08:25pm PT
The Trump Presidency

Or How to Further Enrich “The Masters of the Universe”

By Noam Chomsky and David Barsamian

[This interview has been excerpted from Global Discontents: Conversations on the Rising Threats to Democracy, the new book by Noam Chomsky and David Barsamian to be published this December.]

October 06, 2017 "Information Clearing House" - David Barsamian: You have spoken about the difference between Trump’s buffoonery, which gets endlessly covered by the media, and the actual policies he is striving to enact, which receive less attention. Do you think he has any coherent economic, political, or international policy goals? What has Trump actually managed to accomplish in his first months in office?

Noam Chomsky: There is a diversionary process under way, perhaps just a natural result of the propensities of the figure at center stage and those doing the work behind the curtains.

At one level, Trump’s antics ensure that attention is focused on him, and it makes little difference how. Who even remembers the charge that millions of illegal immigrants voted for Clinton, depriving the pathetic little man of his Grand Victory? Or the accusation that Obama had wiretapped Trump Tower? The claims themselves don’t really matter. It’s enough that attention is diverted from what is happening in the background. There, out of the spotlight, the most savage fringe of the Republican Party is carefully advancing policies designed to enrich their true constituency: the Constituency of private power and wealth, “the masters of mankind,” to borrow Adam Smith’s phrase.

These policies will harm the irrelevant general population and devastate future generations, but that’s of little concern to the Republicans. They’ve been trying to push through similarly destructive legislation for years. Paul Ryan, for example, has long been advertising his ideal of virtually eliminating the federal government, apart from service to the Constituency -- though in the past he’s wrapped his proposals in spreadsheets so they would look wonkish to commentators. Now, while attention is focused on Trump’s latest mad doings, the Ryan gang and the executive branch are ramming through legislation and orders that undermine workers’ rights, cripple consumer protections, and severely harm rural communities. They seek to devastate health programs, revoking the taxes that pay for them in order to further enrich their Constituency, and to eviscerate the Dodd-Frank Act, which imposed some much-needed constraints on the predatory financial system that grew during the neoliberal period.

That’s just a sample of how the wrecking ball is being wielded by the newly empowered Republican Party. Indeed, it is no longer a political party in the traditional sense. Conservative political analysts Thomas Mann and Norman Ornstein have described it more accurately as a “radical insurgency,” one that has abandoned normal parliamentary politics.

Much of this is being carried out stealthily, in closed sessions, with as little public notice as possible. Other Republican policies are more open, such as pulling out of the Paris climate agreement, thereby isolating the U.S. as a pariah state that refuses to participate in international efforts to confront looming environmental disaster. Even worse, they are intent on maximizing the use of fossil fuels, including the most dangerous; dismantling regulations; and sharply cutting back on research and development of alternative energy sources, which will soon be necessary for decent survival.

The reasons behind the policies are a mix. Some are simply service to the Constituency. Others are of little concern to the “masters of mankind” but are designed to hold on to segments of the voting bloc that the Republicans have cobbled together, since Republican policies have shifted so far to the right that their actual proposals would not attract voters. For example, terminating support for family planning is not service to the Constituency. Indeed, that group may mostly support family planning. But terminating that support appeals to the evangelical Christian base -- voters who close their eyes to the fact that they are effectively advocating more unwanted pregnancies and, therefore, increasing the frequency of resort to abortion, under harmful and even lethal conditions.

Not all of the damage can be blamed on the con man who is nominally in charge, on his outlandish appointments, or on the congressional forces he has unleashed. Some of the most dangerous developments under Trump trace back to Obama initiatives -- initiatives passed, to be sure, under pressure from the Republican Congress.

The most dangerous of these has barely been reported. A very important study in the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, published in March 2017, reveals that the Obama nuclear weapons modernization program has increased “the overall killing power of existing US ballistic missile forces by a factor of roughly three -- and it creates exactly what one would expect to see, if a nuclear-armed state were planning to have the capacity to fight and win a nuclear war by disarming enemies with a surprise first strike.” As the analysts point out, this new capacity undermines the strategic stability on which human survival depends. And the chilling record of near disaster and reckless behavior of leaders in past years only shows how fragile our survival is. Now this program is being carried forward under Trump. These developments, along with the threat of environmental disaster, cast a dark shadow over everything else -- and are barely discussed, while attention is claimed by the performances of the showman at center stage.

Whether Trump has any idea what he and his henchmen are up to is not clear. Perhaps he is completely authentic: an ignorant, thin-skinned megalomaniac whose only ideology is himself. But what is happening under the rule of the extremist wing of the Republican organization is all too plain.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Oct 8, 2017 - 08:36am PT
The fascists have let us know that the real News is only from the Official State Right Wing Fascist News Sources; Fox news, Brietbart, Rush, Hannity, the White House or Trump himself.

The News from the reality based community is Fake News now.

That's the way it works, Real News is fabricated Propaganda and fact based news is Fake, you just need to succumb to the leaders and let them tell you what you should believe, many here are good examples of how great this works.

You can't even believe the words directly out of Trump's mouth, he will claim it's Fake News the next day when they use it against him

We have seen his before.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Oct 8, 2017 - 08:45am PT
Senator Bob Corker
✔ ‎@SenBobCorker

It's a shame the White House has become an adult day care center. Someone obviously missed their shift this morning.
WBraun

climber
Oct 8, 2017 - 09:47am PT
Real news and fake news .... what a bunch of horsesh!t.

Real news is not even allowed in the US.

It's not even reported period.

You brainwashed fools .......
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 10, 2017 - 08:27am PT
Apparently if the fake news is to be believed, Trump has challenged Tillerson to an IQ test.

You cannot make this up.

And I have been trying to keep away from politard posts these past few days, but this guy is our president? My dad can beat your dad.
ec

climber
ca
Oct 10, 2017 - 09:51am PT
...Trump suggested perhaps he and Tillerson should take an IQ exam to prove he’s smarter, as adult human beings are wont to do. - Kalli Holloway

"I think it's fake news, but if he did that, I guess we'll have to compare IQ tests. And I can tell you who is going to win." - Forbes interview w/Trump

Bwhahaha!
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Oct 10, 2017 - 01:38pm PT

I love it. The hypocrisy of Trump.

Our country is falling apart, and some of you who support Trump, applaud that? By your tacit support?

In order to save the village, we had to destroy it!
divad

Trad climber
wmass
Oct 10, 2017 - 01:54pm PT
Real news is not even allowed in the US


That's fake news to me.

Ya gotta wonder how the duck gets so well "informed".
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Oct 10, 2017 - 03:07pm PT
When Jill Stein is the candidate you preferred.
jgill

Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
Oct 10, 2017 - 03:22pm PT
From Nuclear Mindfulness in the New Yorker:

Mentally Assign Blame to Jill Stein Voters:

Sometimes feelings can be so overwhelming that we forget what they are: simply feelings, and nothing more. Focus on the feeling you get when you blame this wholly avoidable Armageddon on self-righteous morally superior morons who couldn’t see with any goddam perspective what was right in front of their f*#king faces. Observe the feeling without judgment.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Oct 10, 2017 - 04:21pm PT
Observe the feeling without judgment.

lol!
dirtbag

climber
Oct 10, 2017 - 05:05pm PT
Yep. That’s votesplitting 101. ^^^

Nothing wrong with making compromises to save your country.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Oct 10, 2017 - 05:07pm PT
Per the news tonight, our President is quoted as saying that IQ tests will prove he is smarter than his chosen Secretary of State.

Earlier, NBC News recorded Trump's Secretary of State saying that Trump is a moron.

Trump did not deny being a moron.

I suspect this does not end well for those involved.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2017/10/10/trump-proposes-iq-tests-face-off-with-tillerson-after-secretary-of-state-calls-him-a-moron/?utm_term=.5994b8a51a82

Wikipedia defines a moron as having an IQ between 51 & 70.

Suddenly, I understand more about our current leaders ------- & their supporters.

Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Oct 10, 2017 - 05:18pm PT
Well excuse the f*#k out of me. I vote for what I want, not what I don't want.

It's you people who continue to vote for the lesser of two evils who have gotten us into this mess. When you voted for the lesser, guess what, you still voted for evil.

Try voting for good, if more people did, it would make a difference.

Your preferences are of no matter to the Democratic Party and her self-appointed judges...

Exactly!
dirtbag

climber
Oct 10, 2017 - 05:33pm PT
I do not see anything evil about Hillary Clinton, nor do I see anything evil about compromising for the sake of progress (or at least avoiding regress).

I do see a lot of things that are, if not exactly evil, extremely troubling about the current administration.

If it was a different situation, and the choice was down to a sensible conservative and Trump, I'd vote for the sensible conservative.
WBraun

climber
Oct 10, 2017 - 05:34pm PT
Moron = YOU fools babbling and drooling the same st00pid sh!t every day ......YOU're worst than Trump!
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Oct 10, 2017 - 05:55pm PT
The Trump's are basically the Kardashians of moronic white people.

You have low life, socially abominable as#@&%es wrapped up in the up politics of privilege and hate. Pretty much the complete package.

Apologies to the Kardashians.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Oct 10, 2017 - 06:11pm PT
Trump did not deny being a moron.

He would be lieing if he did.


Wikipedia defines a moron as having an IQ between 51 & 70.

I am borderline.
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Oct 10, 2017 - 06:28pm PT
the US Secretary of State according to multiple sources, called the US President a "Fuking Moron"

there is no higher degree of moron than a F ing moron, so Mr Tillerson must have been serious
WBraun

climber
Oct 10, 2017 - 06:32pm PT
When is Trump not lying?

When he tweets that YOU are a bigger moron than him .....
dirtbag

climber
Oct 10, 2017 - 06:45pm PT
Ouch! :-)
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Oct 10, 2017 - 06:53pm PT
You are spot on Wener. The creature wouldn’t be sullying the Whitehouse if there weren’t a LOT of people more moronic than he is.
dirtbag

climber
Oct 10, 2017 - 07:54pm PT
I hope that someone in 2020 is emboldened enough to primary him. Presidents who are primaried tend to lose, even when the challenger is unsuccessful.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Oct 10, 2017 - 08:03pm PT
I worry what Trump may do if he feels cornered.
zBrown

Ice climber
Oct 10, 2017 - 08:15pm PT
Italic Text
In 2015, Israeli government hackers saw something suspicious in the computers of a Moscow-based cybersecurity firm: hacking tools that could only have come from the National Security Agency.e



Of course everybody should tune into the ST Forooom daily to find out the real scoop


krahmes

Social climber
Stumptown
Oct 10, 2017 - 08:58pm PT
Some really bad Tommy Tutone in honor of the OP of one of the drollest and trollest post on Supertopo.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Carry on with the tardfest.
zBrown

Ice climber
Oct 10, 2017 - 09:12pm PT
Well you heard it here first

Trump not fe worryin'

He gon replace Tillerson, Mattis & Kelly

With

OJ, Cosby & Weinstein


The downside?

They p-grabbers be bigger than liddle' donny's

So the won't last

M
MAGA - hire Asian



jgill

Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
Oct 10, 2017 - 09:16pm PT
Moron = anyone that voted for Trump...


Moron = anyone who continues to denigrate, ridicule and curse Trump voters in an effort to win them over to liberal candidates in the next election.
drF

Trad climber
usa
Oct 10, 2017 - 09:20pm PT
^^^^
Cosby and Winesteen are firmly in the Clinton camp.

But you are a zOMBIE right?

He took one of her molars...yuk!!! The outrage!


zBrown

Ice climber
Oct 10, 2017 - 09:23pm PT
moron = duhF

trump OJ Weinstein Cosby

All gonna be on Mt Rushmore

It's a club

They might need a pee bottle and Sheeit bag emptier - get your application in duh

It's well known that you're a swallower though kinda slow due to your congenital brain damage





drF

Trad climber
usa
Oct 10, 2017 - 09:29pm PT
^^^
give those knees a break z

Grab a toothbrush whilst yur at it.

very Funky you smell
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Oct 10, 2017 - 10:16pm PT
drF!

I sigh for your little life.

Puberty is hard for fat boys covered with pimples, especially when they live in Russia.

Please tell us, if you have any ST folks that will vouch that you are really not a fat, pimply, Russian teen, but instead a bitter old American loser?
c wilmot

climber
Oct 11, 2017 - 07:02am PT
Trump is a moron for wanting to continue the absurdly wasteful nuclear modernization program crafted by the obama admin
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Oct 11, 2017 - 07:59am PT
prove it dumas
monolith

climber
state of being
Oct 11, 2017 - 09:41am PT
Wilmont prefers that only the Chinese and Russians have modernized nukes.

Repubs have controlled the budget for 7 years, and Obummer still gets all the blame.
DanaB

climber
CT
Oct 11, 2017 - 09:54am PT
John, would you give us your definition of liberal?
monolith

climber
state of being
Oct 11, 2017 - 12:43pm PT
No logic as well, DMT.

CHEERS!
jgill

Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
Oct 11, 2017 - 12:47pm PT
Effort to win them over???...

WRONG!!!...

Not trying to win THEM over...


OK, so you guys are morons just stating the facts. Right? My mistake.


;>)
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Oct 11, 2017 - 12:57pm PT
divad

Trad climber
wmass
Oct 11, 2017 - 01:03pm PT
^^^^^^^

That's probably a contrived picture to make trump supporters look stupid.

It really isn't necessary.
WBraun

climber
Oct 11, 2017 - 01:11pm PT
All you politards should be banned for being sooo unbelievably st00pid .....
divad

Trad climber
wmass
Oct 11, 2017 - 01:34pm PT
politards: a contrived word to demean those engaged in open discussions of political issues.

Open discussion of political issues are very necessary.
divad

Trad climber
wmass
Oct 11, 2017 - 02:03pm PT
Ok, but it's missile, not missil.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Oct 11, 2017 - 03:34pm PT
Werner
All you politards should be banned for being sooo unbelievably st00pid .....

Aristotle
Hence it is evident that the state is a creation of nature, and that man is by nature a political animal. And he who by nature and not by mere accident is without a state, is either a bad man or above humanity; he is like the Tribeless, lawless, hearthless one, whom Homer denounces — the natural outcast is forthwith a lover of war; he may be compared to an isolated piece at draughts.
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Oct 11, 2017 - 03:37pm PT
well, why don't you shove off if it bothers you so much?
B Dylan

Idiot Wind, its a wonder you still know how to breathe
drF

Trad climber
usa
Oct 11, 2017 - 07:49pm PT
politards: a real word to describe those engaged in biased discussions of political issues.

Open discussion of political issues are very necessary....as long as it suits our childish agendas.

So true
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Oct 12, 2017 - 06:26am PT
The reports of Tillerson calling Trump a moron and friction with General Mattis and many Republicans on the Foreign Relations Committee stem from Trump's goal to decertify the Iran deal. The deal struck will allow Trump to stroke his base while passing the buck to Congress.

Let's face it, Trump habitually shits his diaper out of anger then gets pleasure making someone else clean it up.

Oddly enough, 25% of voters applaud diaper shitting...
WBraun

climber
Oct 12, 2017 - 09:39am PT
100% know you are an insane out of control serial poster ^^^^^
divad

Trad climber
wmass
Oct 12, 2017 - 09:45am PT
^^^^^

as the duck looks in the mirror..
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Oct 12, 2017 - 12:58pm PT
the smirk of a 5 year old

...who just passed gas and is enjoying both his own stink and the fact others must, out of politeness, pretend they don't smell it.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Oct 12, 2017 - 01:50pm PT
The only joy he gets is treating people like sh*t, and then watching them suck up to him anyway. A pretty sick puppy.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Oct 12, 2017 - 01:57pm PT
It's frightening to imagine how he treats Melania in private. Not that she is innocent, for choosing to marry the man, but I have to wonder if she could honestly admit it, whether the luxury livig has been worth the price she's paying.
eeyonkee

Trad climber
Golden, CO
Oct 12, 2017 - 04:19pm PT
the smirk of a 5 year old

Hey man, as funny as that is, that doesn't look unlike MY smirk! It's uncanny. Sheesh!
eeyonkee

Trad climber
Golden, CO
Oct 12, 2017 - 04:45pm PT
Every now and then I get a bulls-eye when I throw darts. And he IS a moron. His narcissism prevents him from seeing the full picture. The full picture being the parts of the picture that don't have him in it. I know this isn't an exact science, but, I'm going to stretch the meaning of the word moron to include this behavior. Just so we are clear on definitions and all.
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Oct 12, 2017 - 04:49pm PT
I would like to hear about the proposals that Mr Trump has come up with that are both quite realistically workable given the congress and also serve to actually benefit those who need the help

thanks
divad

Trad climber
wmass
Oct 12, 2017 - 05:06pm PT
Believing in every conspiracy theory except the Russian influence on the US election surely qualifies Donnie boy as a moron.

Perhaps he will propose that we go to the moon, since we haven't done that yet.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Oct 12, 2017 - 05:12pm PT
DT is nomor a moron than any who pay attn to polit-threads that have long since run their course.
divad

Trad climber
wmass
Oct 12, 2017 - 05:15pm PT
^^^^

and what brings you here, then?
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Oct 12, 2017 - 06:52pm PT
What brings me here? Morbid curiosity. Like poking a stick at a dead animal.
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