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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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So in a magical unicorn fantasyland kinda place where you could make the icky scary black guns just go away..... You can't of course, real machineguns were used to kill scores of people in France and the rest of Europe recently, along with trucks and bombs. Pretty sure those are all illegal.
But let's for a moment pretend....
You don't think there's methods to kill 22,000 tightly packed people even more effectively than a rifle? If you believe it was really this guy they're blaming, he was educated and owned planes.
These events trigger emotions which then result in illogical thinking.
Fact is, if you've got a nutcase or several of them that want to kill and maim soft targets... they will. Particularly true in the case where the perps don't care much about living through it.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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So in a magical unicorn fantasyland kinda place where you could make the icky scary black guns just go away..... You can't of course, real machineguns were used to kill scores of people in France and the rest of Europe recently, along with trucks and bombs. Pretty sure those are all illegal.
But let's for a moment pretend....
You don't think there's methods to kill 22,000 tightly packed people even more effectively than a rifle? If you believe it was really this guy they're blaming, he was educated and owned planes.
These events trigger emotions which then result in illogical thinking.
Fact is, if you've got a nutcase or several of them that want to kill and maim soft targets... they will. Particularly true in the case where the perps don't care much about living through it.
Good point.
Here's another way to think about it.
The suicide rate in the US is roughly similar to the rate in most European countries. (Rates vary from country to country--I just mean big picture.)
In the US, suicide is very often by gun; in Europe, it rarely is.
So if we got rid of guns, would our suicide rate magically be cut in half?
Seem very unlikely to me--more likely people would just other methods.
Not saying I'm opposed to gun control; just pointing out that there seems to be some delusional thinking going on here. Unfortunately, somewhat intelligent and resourceful lunatics can do a lot of damage by a lot of methods.
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Mike Friedrichs
Sport climber
City of Salt
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As an epidemiologist working in suicide I can tell you that there are several well done studies that show that limiting access to guns (locking them in safes, trigger locks, removing them from the home) reduces suicides, especially among adolescents. Suicide is the leading cause of death for adolescents in Utah.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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The suicide rate in the US is roughly similar to the rate in most European countries. (Rates vary from country to country--I just mean big picture.)
In the US, suicide is very often by gun; in Europe, it rarely is.
So if we got rid of guns, would our suicide rate magically be cut in half?
Interesting question. The problem is we may never know the answer because Congress has banned Federal research money from being spent on gun violence. I think the NRA had something to do with that policy. Oh, and it is just to early to start talking about it, again.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Delusional Solution: MORE GUNS.
DMT
Or rather, that guns or the number of guns or the type of guns have little to do with root causes of violence.
So the solution lies in preventing the cause in each case, which isn't always going to be possible.
More guns don't fix anything nor do more artificial restrictions added to the tomes of restrictions already there.
This is why it makes a perfect wedge issue...
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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A half century ago Robert Heinlein talked about the risk we all assume to live in a free society.
It would be great if we could get the genie back in the bottle, but black rifles are here to stay.
Doesn't Sweden have a high suicide rate, and Norway has no ban on silencers. (If Maxim called it that then I don't need to call it a suppressor).
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Weirder yet, after closing a big deal I had plans to go to the Venetian for clams and then drive the strip people watching before heading to the firebase to camp and shoot my Les Baer SWAT monolith. The rifle and 2 loaded clips were in the car, but I was too lazy to gather camping gear and just stayed home.
If I hadn't I would have been right below Mandalay Bay shortly after ten,....
What would the media have said to a wealthy 64 year old psychopath shot by a wealthy 63 year old with the world's finest heavy battle rifle?
There'd be less calls for "gun control".
More likely, you would have been identified as "the second shooter", shooting a rifle in an active shooter situation, exactly what the authorities were looking for. In all likelihood, someone carrying a handgun, seeing you, would have taken you out, and we'd all be wondering what went wrong with you.......
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Assuming a compromise is part of the "solution" is one of the problems and why it works as a wedge....
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Bump stocks were approved for US sales by the ATF who were under the leadership of obama in 2010.
Factually wrong.
They were approved for sale under the law written by Congress, controlling such sales. Those laws were written when such devices did not exist.
I don't know about you, but during his entire administration, I was seeing and hearing Obama calling for revision of firearms laws. He worked to change the situation. The Repugs blocked him.
The ATF does not have the power to approve of disapprove of something, they only have the power to enforce the law, as written.
Nice try to palm this off on "the black one".....
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Here's another way to think about it.
The suicide rate in the US is roughly similar to the rate in most European countries. (Rates vary from country to country--I just mean big picture.)
In the US, suicide is very often by gun; in Europe, it rarely is.
So if we got rid of guns, would our suicide rate magically be cut in half?
Seem very unlikely to me--more likely people would just other methods.
The problem with that reasoning, is the effectiveness of various methods.
Guns are very effective, and has a very high rate of success. Other methods much less so:
http://therochesterinsomniac.com/2014/04/07/you-should-never-ever-do-this-but-if-your-going-to-heres-how-killing-yourself/
So, YES, if firearms were abolished, the suicide rate would immediately be reduced, as people use less efficient methodology.....
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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As an epidemiologist working in suicide I can tell you that there are several well done studies that show that limiting access to guns (locking them in safes, trigger locks, removing them from the home) reduces suicides, especially among adolescents. Suicide is the leading cause of death for adolescents in Utah.
And in an effort to preserve children's rights to kill themselves and others, GOP lawmakers in several states have made it ILLEGAL for physicians to discuss with patients the importance of the dangers of guns to resident children, and the importance of limiting access to children.
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Ain't no flatlander
climber
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Bump stocks were approved for US sales by the ATF who were under the leadership of obama in 2010.
Factually wrong.
They were approved for sale under the law written by Congress, controlling such sales. Those laws were written when such devices did not exist.
I don't know about you, but during his entire administration, I was seeing and hearing Obama calling for revision of firearms laws. He worked to change the situation. The Repugs blocked him.
The ATF does not have the power to approve of disapprove of something, they only have the power to enforce the law, as written.
Nice try to palm this off on "the black one".....
Bzzzzt, thanks for playing but he had it right.
The ATF makes the call on whether a product falls under NFA or not. Without a letter of approval, the product cannot be sold over the counter. Obama's ATF ruled that it was not an NFA product so it didn't require the $200 tax or the yearlong wait. They had almost 8 years to reverse that decision under the past president but kept them on the open market.
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Ain't no flatlander
climber
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The problem is we may never know the answer because Congress has banned Federal research money from being spent on gun violence.
Another flagrant lie. There is no such ban, never has been. What is outlawed is promoting gun control using federal money with purposely flawed "studies". Let science do science and all is good, money is available.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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It is sad that some people in 'Merica think that a drunk flipping off a mass murderer is a hero. How shallow we have become.
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WBraun
climber
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He flipped off the shooter.
He's hero!!!
The rest of you pussies who are slagging him would be crying like little gurls on the ground .....:-)
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Ain't no flatlander
climber
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Congress Gutted Researchers’ Ability to Study Gun Violence. Now They’re Fighting Back.
Citing ill-informed reporters doesn't make your case. The so-called research ban, which isn't a ban, is the direct result of the bias of Rosenberg and Kellerman decades ago. Those two screwed up all legitimate gun research since 1994. They are the ones to blame for lack of funding today. The NRA has done some bad sh#t over the years but that one ain't on them.
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