The Vietnam War: A conversation with Ken Burns and Lynn Novick

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mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Sep 19, 2017 - 06:26am PT
3 April 1963
Lt. Col. John Paul Vann departed Vietnam for an assignment in the United States. Vann met with and briefed many officers at the Pentagon about the military situation in Vietnam.

He was invited to brief the Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS) on July 8. However, his briefing was cancelled at the last minute, apparently by the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff General Maxwell Taylor.

Vann's proposed briefing to the JCS was at odds with what General Harkins was telling Washington. He planned to say that the body counts ARVN reported of Viet Cong killed were inflated and included many non-combatants and that the indiscriminate use of artillery and air strikes was alienating the Vietnamese population.[16]
steveA

Trad climber
Wolfeboro, NH
Sep 19, 2017 - 11:56am PT
Hey Mouse,

Interesting bit of historical trivia, you just cited. Doesn't surprise me in the least. I'm becoming more cynical as I get older, and certainly don't trust the military establishment, which thrives on ongoing wars, somewhere in the world, backed by many politicians in DC.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Sep 19, 2017 - 12:34pm PT
I'm becoming more cynical as I get older, and certainly don't trust the military establishment,

I had a flag in my yard after 9/11.... Bought the MSM story hook line and sinker.

But I also watched Teevee then....

War is the most foolish of human activities and involves conning the largest number of people through fear and lies to support such horrors.

Studly

Trad climber
WA
Sep 19, 2017 - 12:45pm PT
and that old demon Kissinger still walks the earth. Interesting how he also chaired the 9-11 commission, and meets in private with current presidents, Obama, Trump, etc. Makes you wonder who is really calling the shots. Maybe old Beelzebub himself..
WyoRockMan

climber
Grizzlyville, WY
Sep 19, 2017 - 01:01pm PT
I sure wish my Dad would watch this with me. He won't though.

I knew from a young age that he was a Corpsman in the Navy and did a partial tour in Vietnam. That was the sum total of what I knew until just a few years ago. There was absolutely no discussion of those years in our house. His pride and wounds kept the details locked up tight. Bitterly tight.

A couple years ago he had a severe medical issue that put him in the ICU for a week. Facing huge medical bills from multiple surgeries I asked my Mom why he didn't have any VA coverage, and she said he missed a deadline for filing some paperwork years ago. Not surprising, as everything sent to the house from the military was promptly thrown away. He kept a shoe box under his bed that I peeked into while getting his slippers in preparation for moving out of ICU. There was an assortment of military decorations, including two purple hearts. And a hat, USS Denver (LPD-9).

The purple hearts were for physical injuries received in combat, but his mental injuries are far deeper than I can ever understand. I'm sure the Ken Burns documentary will help fill in the general blanks of my understanding of why we were there. I hope we can minimize the damage we do to these "kids" in the future, because the aftermath isn't pretty.

mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Sep 19, 2017 - 01:06pm PT
Please allow me to introduce myself
I'm a man you've all come to hate
[Click to View YouTube Video]Lies fell from his lips like bombs on Hanoi.

Kissinger = Beelzebub
zBrown

Ice climber
Sep 19, 2017 - 01:09pm PT

Funny how hindsight is so revealing.


I wonder what will be said about this in the future:


The Russians may have given North Korea technical help in building nuclear weapons.


http://www.nationalreview.com/article/451476/th-korea-vladimir-putin-behind-missile-threat
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Sep 19, 2017 - 01:29pm PT
This was perhaps Nixon's most heinous lie, the so called "Chennault Affair...
Said Nixon: “My, I would never do anything to encourage….Saigon not to come to the table….Good God, we’ve got to get them to Paris or you can’t have peace.”
during the 1968 presidential election.

In the four years between the sabotage and what Kissinger termed “peace at hand” just prior to the 1972 election, more than 20,000 US troops died in Vietnam. More than 100,000 were wounded. More than a million Vietnamese were killed.

But in 1973, Kissinger was given the Nobel Peace Prize for negotiating the same settlement he helped sabotage in 1968.

According to Parry, LBJ wanted to go public with Nixon’s treason. But Clark Clifford, an architect of the CIA and a pillar of the Washington establishment, talked Johnson out of it. LBJ’s close confidant warned that the revelation would shake the foundations of the nation.

This is just one of many reasons Kissinger is so despised and considered a war criminal by many.

https://www.commondreams.org/views/2014/08/12/george-will-confirms-nixons-vietnam-treason
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Sep 19, 2017 - 01:36pm PT
Wait a second--this was a little before my time, but didn't Kennedy start the war, LBJ escalate it, and then Nixon finally end it (with maybe a few "tricks" but that's why they called him Tricky Dick)?
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Sep 19, 2017 - 01:47pm PT
Wait a second--this was a little before my time, but didn't Kennedy start the war
No
LBJ escalate it
yes
and then Nixon finally end it (with maybe a few "tricks" but that's why they called him Tricky Dick)?
yeah, the war ended during the Nixon administration.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Sep 19, 2017 - 01:51pm PT
Nixon was an all-out sonofabitch and that's that.
Kissinger, stick your peace prize.

I've named an obscurity in Castle Cliffs above Yosemite Village for Tricky Dick. It's a rotten, sandy, hard-to-find POS single-pitch chimney. but he doesn't even deserve that, IMO, so I've never sent it to the guidebook editors.
zBrown

Ice climber
Sep 19, 2017 - 01:57pm PT
The French started the war. Their efforts were followed on by Truman, Eisenhower, et al.

tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Sep 19, 2017 - 02:16pm PT

Introduction

On March 18, 1969, the United States began a four year long carpet-bombing campaign in the skies of Cambodia, devastating the countryside and causing socio-political upheaval that eventually led to the installation of the Pol Pot regime.


History
During the Vietnam War, the Vietnamese Liberation Front and the PAVN used a network of supply routes that partially ran through Laos and Cambodia. As the War progressed, the U.S. ostensibly invaded both Cambodia and Laos in order to disrupt these routes.

The Bombing
The initial operation was authorized by then President Richard Nixon, but without the knowledge or approval of U.S. Congress. The bombings became public knowledge in 1973, after which they were stopped.

The United States dropped upwards of 2.7 million tons of bombs on Cambodia, exceeding the amount it had dropped on Japan during WWII (including Hiroshima and Nagasaki) by almost a million tons. During this time, about 30 per cent of the country's population was internally displaced.


Result

Estimates vary widely on the number of civilian casualites inflicted by the campaign; however,as many as 500,000 people died as a direct result of the bombings while perhaps hundreds of thousands more died from the effects of displacement, disease or starvation during this period.

The Khmer Rouge, previously a marginalized guerrilla group, propagandized the bombing campaign to great effect; by the CIA's own intelligence estimates, the US bombing campaign was a key factor in the increase in popular support for the Khmer Rouge rebels. After their victory in 1975, the Khmer Rouge oversaw a period in which another one-to-two million Cambodians died from execution, hunger and forced labour.

After it became public, the bombing campaign was a subject of contention within the U.S. as opposition to the U.S. military project in Indochina intensified.

References

http://www.khmercity.net/forum/topics/map-of-us-bombed-cambodia

http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stories/cambodia/tl02.html

http://www.zmag.org/znet/viewArticle/2582[/quote]

http://rabble.ca/toolkit/on-this-day/us-secret-bombing-cambodia

WBraun

climber
Sep 19, 2017 - 02:28pm PT
The Vietnam War

They're still doing this sh!t to this very day.

You st000pid Americans haven't learned one f__kin thing yet!
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Sep 19, 2017 - 02:38pm PT
http://www.soldiers-of-misfortune.com/history/apocalypse-now.htm
G_Gnome

Trad climber
Cali
Sep 19, 2017 - 02:39pm PT
I'm with Reilly on this one, I don't really want to rehash that history.

And 'No' Werner, we haven't learned anything! Dammit!
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Sep 19, 2017 - 04:18pm PT
YO, Yogi! That should be "WE st)))pid Americans..."

St)))pid German rocket scientists...
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Sep 19, 2017 - 07:06pm PT
Mean Old World...

[Click to View YouTube Video]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAV6HJXKYtw
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Sep 20, 2017 - 09:29am PT
Quote from Episode 3...

LBJ to head of CBS after Morley Safer covers Zippo raid on Cam Ne hamlet on the evening news..."Are you trying to f*ck me?"

guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Sep 20, 2017 - 10:12am PT
I watch this alone....

makes me cry



Fantastic shot up thread, SteveA thanks for posting.

useless, stupid and sickening.

I salute everyone for doing what they had to do to survive that time.
Messages 41 - 60 of total 151 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
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