Climbing gyms: profitable?

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Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 27, 2017 - 12:30pm PT
Dunno about profitability but I can't think of a gym that's gone out of business...

Three of them went under here in the Phoenix area after the 2008 housing bust. Interestingly though, new ones have since opened up and seem to be doing well.

Curt
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jun 27, 2017 - 01:27pm PT
Brian, I am not surprised that WA was a pioneer in gyms. My comment was directed at the fact that Vital has 3 gyms within a 45 minute radius, and one over 1000 miles away. I am sure there is a reason, just an odd business model.
FTOR

Sport climber
CA
Jun 27, 2017 - 01:41pm PT
i'd still argue that city rock was the first purposely built indoor climbing gym on the model of bolt-on interchangeable holds. the first iteration of vertical world was largely fixed holds, ie rocks epoxied to cinderblock walls. while peter had the vision, it was melvin, touchstone, who brought us the gym experience we know today.
brian n

Sport climber
Manchester, WA
Jun 27, 2017 - 04:24pm PT
Schurman Rock in West Seattle

I stand corrected. I guess memory doesn't serve as well as it used to. I tell my wife I know everything, I just can't remember it all at once.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 27, 2017 - 04:48pm PT
Arcadia Rock Climbing was permanently closed today. I don't know if it was sold. Members were given refunds.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 27, 2017 - 05:53pm PT
Actually, just read that the owner decided not to sale it, but decided just to close it.
Srbphoto

climber
Kennewick wa
Jun 27, 2017 - 09:25pm PT
while peter had the vision, it was melvin, touchstone, who brought us the gym experience we know today.

Good, now we know who to blame!
chainsaw

Trad climber
CA
Jun 27, 2017 - 09:54pm PT
Long before Mark Melvin built mission cliffs and class 5, Rocknasium was setting routes in a warehouse in Davis Ca. I believe that was 1992. For grips (holds) they started out with pieces of granite countertop and actual rocks cut on a tile saw. Also many "woodies." The texture on the walls was ground up walnut shells. They had Teva shoe rubber remnants for pad and we belayed with figure eights off half wrap anchors. They also built one of the first portable walls. It used cables and come alongs to erect. The thing weighed a ton! It was belayed by belayers with Gri gris. Rocksport Reno was also pretty way back. I dont always get along with Marko and Squirel, but they were real pioneers of the sport. They plucked a skinny little girl out of Davis and taught her to climb. We all know her as Beth Rodden today. I will never forget hard grit nights after hours. I remember we had to come up with a story about how the glass of the candy counter got smashed one night. Cameron took a huge whipper through the arch, ripping Will, his belayer off the deck. Cameron landed in the candy counter. It was my idea to tell Squirrel that we dropped a Gri gri on it while routsetting in the arch. Squirrel said "sure you did." " I dont even wanna know what the Fawk you guys were doing but it better not happen again cuz next time youre payin for it!"
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 27, 2017 - 10:47pm PT
i'd still argue that city rock was the first purposely built indoor climbing gym on the model of bolt-on interchangeable holds. the first iteration of vertical world was largely fixed holds, ie rocks epoxied to cinderblock walls. while peter had the vision, it was melvin, touchstone, who brought us the gym experience we know today.

That's certainly not a good description of the first Vertical Club that I remember. I definitely remember plywood walls with bolt-on holds.

Curt
Gunkie

Trad climber
Valles Marineris
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 28, 2017 - 05:08am PT
I think I climbed in the original Boston Rock Gym in Somerville (?) in 1989. That was the place where you climbed in a brick shaft and holds were often just chipped out mortar. And all the locals at Quincy Quarries were blaming the 'wicked' crowds at QQ on that place.
Alan Rubin

climber
Amherst,MA.
Jun 28, 2017 - 05:52am PT
Yes, the original Boston Rock Gym opened in '89 in Somerville and offered a mix of bolt-on holds and brick edges. It was proceeded by about a year or so by a small wall of plywood with bolt-on holds in part of a YMCA gymnasium in suburban Wakefield. This was open to the public for a day-use fee so was, technically, a 'commercial climbing gym'. The creator and manager of that wall became one of the founding partners of the BRG. Both these, however, followed Seattle's Vertical Club and, possibly the Portland (OR) Rock Club as well.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Jun 28, 2017 - 08:14am PT
7 years ago (apparently) I was asked to contemplate a partnership with other friends as a business to manage the Sunrise Rock Gym in Livermore, which was my local gym at the time.

The Livermore gym was a nice place, but very small, something like 2000 square feet of climbing wall. I'm not a business man, but I decided to research the history of climbing gyms with the intent of seeing if small gyms could be financially viable.

I combed the advert pages in the old Climbing magazines for gyms, which usually gave some area measure for their gym size. There were 113 gyms in this list with a size. I then went to work trying to figure out if the gyms were still in business by attempting to find them on the web, or at least a sign of them on the web... often this was members lamenting their closure on various internet forums.

From that data I built a "failure" rate bar chart:

I haven't updated the closure data on this since I produced that chart, at the time the 50% failure rate was at 4,000 square feet. So it didn't seem like a good business proposal. On the other hand I've been going to PGSV since then, an itinerant climber looking for a gym...

There is probably some good reason why this empirical relationship exists. chainsaw's list of profitable activities could probably help. I did put a financial model together but never finished populating it with the relevant numbers.

As for me, I usually buy a 10 punch card, and if I am only at the gym 40 times a year I spend less than a membership. That's about at my yearly average, and given that I have to travel distance to get to any bay area gym it isn't that likely I'll join. I go regularly once a week, on Wednesday for about 5 hours and include yoga.

here's the list:

o, 38, Planet Rock Climbing
o, 32, Carabiner's Indoor Climbing and Training Center, New Bedford
o, 25, Planet Granite, Sunnyvale
o, 23.5, Granite Arch Climbing Center, Sacramento
o, 20, Vertical Hold, San Diego
o, 20, Planet Granite, Belmont
o, 20, Upper Limits, Bloomington
c, 18, Vertical Endeavors, Warrenville
o, 18, Vertical Endeavors, St. Paul
o, 17, Rockquest Climbing Center, Cincinnati
o, 16, City Beach Rock Club
o, 16, Rock of Ages Climbery
o, 15, Earth Treks Climbing Centers
o, 15, The Rock Oasis, Toronto
o, 15, Boston Rock Gym, Woburn
o, 15, Dyno-Rock, Arlington
o, 14.5, The Climbing Wall, Pittsburg
o, 14, Berkeley Ironworks
o, 14, Mission Cliffs
o, 14, X-Treme Rock Climbing, Miami
o, 14, Vertical Endeavors, Duluth
o, 14, Go Vertical, Philadelphia
o, 14, Bouldertown Climbing Center, Philadelphia
o, 14, Peak Experiences, Didlothian
o, 14, Stone Gardens, Seattle
o, 13, Sport Climbing Center, Colorado Springs
o, 13, The Gravity Vault
o, 12.5, Adrenaline Climbing, Suwanee
o, 12.5, Portland Rock Gym
o, 12, Thrillseekers, Denver
o, 12, Atlanta Rocks, Intown
o, 12, Hoosier Heights, Bloomington
o, 12, The Quarry, Provo
o, 12, New Jersey Rock Gym, Fairfield
o, 12, Rockreation, Costa Mesa
o, 12, Solidrock Gym, Poway
o, 12, The Climbing Place, Feyetteville
o, 12, Climb Time, Indianapolis
o, 11.5, ClubSport Adventure Center, Tigard
o, 11, Touchstone Concord
o, 11, Pipeworks
o, 10.5, Climb Kalamazoo
o, 10, Solidrock Gym, Lake Forest
o, 10, Aiguille Rock Climbing Center, Orlando
o, 10, The Sports Center at Chelsa Piers
o, 10, Upper Limits, St. Louis
o, 10, Rockreation, Los Angeles
?, 10, Cascade Crags, Everett
o, 10, Rocksport Inc, Louisville
c, 10, Vertical Reality Rock Gym, Cherry Hill
o, 10, Boulder Rock Club, Boulder
o, 9.5, Petra Cliffs, Burlington
o, 9.5, Adventure Rock, Pewaukee
o, 9, Philadelphia Rock Gym
o, 9, Exposure Rock Gym, Carrollton
c, 9, Vertical Stronghold LLP, Appleton
c, 9, Gar Indoor Climbing Center, Rockford
o, 9, Vertical Reality, Whitewater
o, 9, Dover Indoor Climbing Gym
o, 8.5, Rockreation, SLC
c, 8.5, Vertical Edge Climbing Center, Durham
o, 8, Vertical Dreams, Manchester
o, 8, Doylestown Rock Gym
o, 8, Inner Peaks Climbing Center, Charlotte
c, 8, Boulder Morty's, Nashua
o, 8, Urban Krag Indoor Climbing Center, Dayton
o, 8, Gainsville Rock Gym
o, 8, Boulders Climbing Gym, Madison
o, 8, Vertical Excape, Evansville
?, 8, Vegas Rock Gym
o, 7, Higher Ground, Grand Rapids
o, 7, Ibex Indoor Climbing Center, Blue Springs
o, 7, Prarie Walls, Rochester
c, 7, Monkey Brothers Climbing Center, Omaha
?, 7, Rock Works, Minneapolis
o, 6.5, Texas Rock Gym, Houston
o, 6, Miramont Lifestyle Fitness, Fort Collins
c, 6, Atlanta Rocks, Perimeter
o, 6, Virginia Beach Rock Gym
o, 6, Vertical Extreme, Philadelphia
o, 6, Vertical Ventures, Tampa
o, 6, Climb Time of Blue Ash, Cincinnati
c, 6, Rocks & Ropes, Greenville
o, 6, Niagra Climbing Center
o, 5.8, Inner Strength Rock Gym, Fort Collins
o, 5.5, Climb On, Homewood
c, 5, Class 5, San Rafael
o, 5, South Metro Family YMCA, Jacksonville
c, 5, Omega Rock, Hobart
o, 5, Manhattan Plaza Helath Club Climbing Gym
c, 5, The Wall, Quechee
?, 5, Peak Performers at the YMCA, Jacksonville
o, 4.5, Jungle Gym's Indoor Rock Climbing, Arcadia
o, 4.5, CLIMBX, Huntington Beach
c, 4.5, Climb Time, Lexington
o, 4.5, Rocksport, Lake George
o, 4.5, Stone Age Rock Gym, Manchester
o, 4.5, Rock Barn, Plymouth
c, 4, Touchstone, San Jose
o, 4, Hester's Family Fitness Center
o, 4, Rocky Top Climbing Club, Charlotteville
o, 4, Vertical Adventure Rock Gym, Columbus
o, 3.5, Climb North, Pittsburgh
o, 3.5, Sante Fe Climbing Gym
c, 3, Electric City Rock Gym, Schenectady
o, 3, Up The Wall, New Brunswick
c, 3, Pemi Valley Rock Gym, North Woodstock
?, 3, Harborside Athletic Club Rock Climbing Gym, Portsmouth
c, 2, Sunrise Rock Gym
?, 2, Quad Cities Rock Gym, Bettendorf
o, 2, Hidden Peak at Lakeshore Academy, Chicago
c, 1.5, Pipestone Mountaineering, Butte
c, 1, Fitplex, Chicago
Gunkie

Trad climber
Valles Marineris
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 28, 2017 - 10:01am PT
...50% failure rate was at 4,000 square feet. So it didn't seem like a good business proposal.

Great analysis!
cleo

Social climber
wherever you go, there you are
Jun 28, 2017 - 03:23pm PT
Hmm, good analysis, although that list is suspect in my non-scientific didn't-use-a-tape-measure opinion!

Pipeworks is shown at significantly smaller than Granite Arch, but I don't think that's true? At worst, they have the same amount of rope climbing wall space (I think pipeworks has more though), and Pipeworks has a way bigger bouldering area. And That's not counting the crossfit and normal weightlifting areas.

Maybe it's changed a lot in the last 7 years?

(also, pipeworks is bigger than berkeley ironworks - the roped and bouldering areas are completely separate at PW, although BIW *might* have more roped wall space).
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 28, 2017 - 03:34pm PT
Golf courses

Public - green fees & carts (plus land)

Privates - memberships (plus land)

Plus land only if you're the owner



I knew another guy who worked for s big retailer

They only built stores on land they could acquire.

The value of the land appreciation far exceeded the value of company,
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Jun 28, 2017 - 10:09pm PT
the square footage was provided by the gyms in their ads, so I'm sure there is a tendency to be generous with the estimate...

but I took those at "face value" for my purposes.
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