Fighting a camping out of bounds ticket?

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JLundeen

climber
Topic Author's Original Post - May 25, 2017 - 07:19am PT
Just wondering if it's even worth my time. I'd like to know what the process is if someone has even been through it. I tried yesterday going to the courthouse to request a court date within the next month so that I would still be in California. The security guard at the courthouse said its a bureaucratic nightmare and they won't even schedule the court date for a few months when they realize the fine isn't going to be paid.

The details and what I want to fight are as follows. The ticket was issued on the highway outside of YNP, past the hotel, just before the gas station(el portal). There are many pullouts with no camping signs, this one didn't have one.

Is there any way that I actually can accelerate the court date? I'm guessing he 6th amendment doesn't apply here.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 25, 2017 - 07:45am PT
Don't waste yer time unless you like getting angry. The justice system ain't about justice.
jeff constine

Trad climber
Ao Namao
May 25, 2017 - 07:52am PT
LOL!!! get over it.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
May 25, 2017 - 07:58am PT
Were you sleeping in your car or actually camping, as in chairs set up, stove blazing?

As for the ticket, just pay it.
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
May 25, 2017 - 08:02am PT
Before spending much time and energy mounting your defense I'd make sure the presence of a sign is required by the rule you allegedly violated. I'm not sure what you mean by the sixth amendment, but the purpose of the right to a speedy trial applies to people accused of a crime that are in jail awaiting trial. Are you in the clink???
Branscomb

Trad climber
Lander, WY
May 25, 2017 - 09:07am PT
Just pay it, or, you could go to Canada and ask for political asylum.
Spider Savage

Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
May 25, 2017 - 09:11am PT
You will experience great relief when you just pay it. Fuking with the system is worse than the fine.

You got a costly lesson in keeping a lower profile.

And thanks for the tip on the unposted turnouts.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 25, 2017 - 09:36am PT
Dossing in turnouts can also turn out far worse than a puny ticket.
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
May 25, 2017 - 10:10am PT
J,

How does the security guard know that the court will "realize the fine won't get paid?"

Did you enter a plea at the court house already?

Gorgeous George

Trad climber
Los Angeles, California
May 25, 2017 - 10:22am PT
You have legitimate defense. Ignore everyone that says pay the fine.

Contact the U.S. Attorneys office by mail, send them a copy of your ticket, and tell them it was issued outside of the park proper, that you were camping off the highway where no signs were posted prohibiting camping. Include a picture of the site if you can.

Look up the statute they claim you violated (just google it), and it probably has language you can cite to, the specific areas in which camping out of bounds is prohibited.

Tell them you are not local, and having to return for court proceedings would be financially impossible, and that you don't want to pay the fine because you didn't violate the law.

Ask them to respond in writing.

At the very least you are putting them on notice that you intend to fight the case, and they will have to make a practical decision whether to pursue it.

I recently successfully defended 11 junior lawyers that blocked immigration buses by standing on the roadway but remained on the sidewalk. I filed a motion to dismiss that no federal statutes were violated, the sidewalk was city property. The gov conceded.

You can contact me directly if you wish to discuss it further.

(P.S., I'm a California attorney 35+ years.)
LuckyPink

climber
the last bivy
May 25, 2017 - 10:28am PT
I'm with George, fight it if it's possible for you, Pushback through legal channels helps all of us with this kind of tooling. I've done it successfully
Russ Walling

Social climber
from Poofters Froth, Wyoming
May 25, 2017 - 10:28am PT
I had a similar problem, perhaps in that exact same spot. The thing that may trip you up (input George?) is that the sign that says YOSEMITE as you enter the park, may not be the actual Park boundary. That is how they tried to get me. Technically they will say it is out of bounds camping IN the Park (as per all their laws about this) rather than just a dude sleeping in a turnout that basically nobody but Caltrans or the county cares about.

Fight it.
shipoopoi

Big Wall climber
oakland
May 25, 2017 - 10:32am PT
^^^^^^^^^^^
do what the lawyer says, tool the tool. talk with the public defender, andras farkus, who is required by law to help you for free ss
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
May 25, 2017 - 10:32am PT
Always wondered about the "drowsy driving" defense.

Isn't it wise to pull over and nap in your car if you are nodding out?
Do they really want you to get out there and be a danger to everyone?
Gorgeous George

Trad climber
Los Angeles, California
May 25, 2017 - 10:33am PT
Russ,

I was pondering that point after posting, but "Notice" is a huge concept in the law. One cannot be expected to know where it is proper - or improper - to camp without it.

jg
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
May 25, 2017 - 11:15am PT
+1 for drowsy driving interest. Seems a negligence claim could be made if got rousted and then effectively forced a drowsy drive to move and they then hurt someone else. But for the forced removal... contributory at the very least.
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
May 25, 2017 - 11:40am PT
It appears that there is one 1/4 mile long section of Hwy 140 next to the motel which is in the national forest and is outside the park.
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
May 25, 2017 - 11:49am PT
IANAL. But that won't stop me from pompously spouting off on an Internet forum.

Drowsy driving defense would seemingly be undermined by saying, "you should have planned better and stopped in a place where it is legal for you to sleep." Otherwise, we would have defenses like "I had to run the red light because I didn't have enough time to slow down safely and I didn't want to cause an accident."

Fighting based on jurisdiction or lack of notice for a person exercising "reasonable care" seems like a more compelling path. This might trip you up:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignorantia_juris_non_excusat

Thus, it is well settled that persons engaged in any undertakings outside what is common for a normal person...

And thus begins the trail of prejudice against dirtbaggery.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
May 25, 2017 - 11:53am PT
The point where the park boundary crosses the road is marked on this map, where were you?
c wilmot

climber
May 25, 2017 - 12:29pm PT
I would just pay the ticket. I have a map from 1982 and if clearly shows that whole area as being off limits to camping.
Messages 1 - 20 of total 39 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
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