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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Bodega, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 21, 2006 - 07:55pm PT
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MZiebell, Was it necessary to nuke the conversation just when it was getting interesting? I think Ouch! was just working up a real masterpiece.
The original post:
Yosemite National Park (CA)
BASE Jumpers Apprehended
Ranger Keith Lober was descending from El Capitan while off-duty on December 3rd when he came upon two men who were ascending fixed ropes on the rappel route. While waiting at an anchor with the first man, it became apparent to Lober that the second man was not a climber due to his attire and lack of climbing skill. Suspecting that they were BASE jumpers, Lober engaged them in conversation. The men asked Lober if he was a ranger; when he assured them that he wasn’t, they told him that they were going to BASE jump from El Cap that night. Later in the evening, they jumped from El Capitan by the light of the full moon. Lober and other rangers were waiting for them when they landed. Fernando Motta, 29, of Oakland, California, landed in the meadow, stashed his gear, and evaded the rangers in the dark, but Walden Grindle, 28, of Angwin, California, was arrested as he landed. Motta turned himself in two hours later in an effort to retrieve his vehicle and BASE jumping gear, all of which had been seized as evidence. Both were charged with illegal air delivery, and Motta was also charged with possession of marijuana. Evidence seized by the rangers included video from Motta’s helmet camera. [Submitted by Leslie Reynolds, Valley District Ranger]
The dialog:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=296839&msg=297434#msg297434
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ground_up
Trad climber
mt. hood /baja
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Dec 21, 2006 - 09:19pm PT
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If it helps to lure in a creation from Ouch I'm in.
All of us probably had a situation in our youth where a cop let us slide.... I did. So , my point is... If it woulda been me..I'd of said something like
" That is awesome you fellers want to jump off El Cap , must be a rush, however , we got us a little problem....ya see ...well...I'm a Ranger, and unfortunately it's illegal to do that...and frankly I don't agree , cuz I'm an F'n climber and I think you guys oughta be able to.. But it's my job. I understand y'all wanting to do your jump and if ya must, ya must...but I can't guarantee you won't get arrested upon landing...the park service takes that stuff real serious like...so..do what you gotta do, I respect ya either way...oh yeh , if ya decide to head on down...I'll buy ya beer.
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LuckyPink
climber
the last bivy
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Dec 21, 2006 - 09:22pm PT
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yeah I liked that thread too.. what's the worry?
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nature
climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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Dec 21, 2006 - 10:15pm PT
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So if true, how is it that a LEO can lie about being an LEO. City cops, if asked, must disclose they are LEO's otherwise it's entrapment. Or did shrub change the rules?
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deuce4
Big Wall climber
the Southwest
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Dec 22, 2006 - 12:33am PT
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Rule number 1: Never brag about something you have not yet done.
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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Dec 22, 2006 - 12:38am PT
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hahaha, I like Rule Number 1 deuce....
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Dec 22, 2006 - 11:03am PT
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Rule number 1: Never brag about something you have not yet done.
When climbers do that, it tends to bite them in the ass, as we've been fortunate enough to behold.
BTW, I feel that nuking the thread (and a whole bunch of other people's posts) was exceedingly lame.
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MZiebell
Social climber
Prescott, AZ
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Dec 22, 2006 - 11:14am PT
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Jerry (and others who posted)
I nuked to post because I could see where it was going... :
LOBER BASH!
Since I consider Keith a friend I just wasn't interested in having my name associated with the usual slander and silliness that is so often the mark of those exchanges.
I agree, though, the discussion of BASE activities in NPS areas is worth having, although aren't there alternative forums for that?
Martin
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Dec 22, 2006 - 11:16am PT
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I nuked to post because I could see where it was going... :
LOBER BASH!
Really? I didn't see that at all (and I've read all the Lober threads).
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MZiebell
Social climber
Prescott, AZ
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Dec 22, 2006 - 11:22am PT
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HK,
You might be right. But I just wasn't interested in being a part of it.
So, can anyone outline the NPS position (rationel) on BASE jumping?
M
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Dec 22, 2006 - 11:32am PT
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It's one thing to delete your own posts. But summarily deleting dozens of other's
in a fell swoop really rubs me the wrong way. This is the only forum I've ever seen
(and I've seen a fuçk of a lot) where this is possible. I consider it to be a forum-bug
rather than a feature. Just my (knott-so) humble opinion, FWIW. Carry on...
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Burns
Trad climber
Arlington, VA
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Dec 22, 2006 - 11:33am PT
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Martin-
As a participant in the last thread, I want to clarify that I was in no way trying to start a Lober bashing party, or even a ranger bashing party. My dad was a ranger, and it upsets me when rangers get torn up on this website, because the truth is always somewhere in between and 99% of the time those guys are trying to do a very difficult job as well as they can (there are always a few bad apples). I have often defended the NPS on this site. I was intentionally very careful to speak in general terms, referring to the situation rather than the person, using LEO rather than descending into useless and adolescent phrases like 'that d-bag Lober' which would only serve to invalidate me. My impression of the other posts is that the other posters had the same aim, to have a useful discussion rather than to bash one man (there are always a few bad apples). I think this is a worthy discussion, as I think it goes to the roots of the purposes of law enforcement and the relationships that rangers have with the visiting public, whether they be climbers, jumpers, or fat foreign tourons who's most strenuous activity is stepping up onto the Green Dragon. Honestly, I hope Mr. Lober reads this and has a chance to see the way his actions are interpreted by the public. Also, I thought nuking the last thread was really lame mostly because I was in the midst of writing the 28th post, which was absolutely brilliant, but now the world is a poorer place as the thread was nuked before it got posted and now it is gone forever. So sad.
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MZiebell
Social climber
Prescott, AZ
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Dec 22, 2006 - 11:36am PT
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Sorry about your post Burns. But this one looks pretty good...
So, Can you outline the NPS position on Base Jumping?
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Burns
Trad climber
Arlington, VA
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Dec 22, 2006 - 11:46am PT
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Martin-
I'm just joking with you. I don't know that anything I've ever had to say would qualify as brilliant.
As far as the NPS position on BASE jumping, I don't know for sure, but I might be able to do a little research. If I find anything official I'll certainly post it. I think part of my post that never saw the light of day went something like this, which questioned the policy itself:
In this particular situation there are two intertwined issues, one of which must be wrong. Either the law against base jumping exists for a valid reason (that reason is that it causes or has the potential to cause some real harm to people or park resources) and therefore the LEO is morally obligated to prevent the crime, or the LEO has no obligation to prevent the crime because no real harm could be expected to result, in which case the law itself is invalid.
Thanks for rejoining the discussion and steering it in the right direction.
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deuce4
Big Wall climber
the Southwest
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Dec 22, 2006 - 11:49am PT
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It would be interesting to estimate the statistics, of how many people have jumped in Yosemite verses the number of accidents.
Though I always dreamed of jumping El Cap one day, once I saw the remains of a woman who had hit her head on the way down--on El Cap Tower, I believe--(during a rescue--Werner, remember that one?), I lost some of my enthusiasm for it. Soon after, my good friend Xaver died on a base jump, and that was it for me: parachute for sale, cheap.
With hanggliding, people generally don't explode into pieces when something bad happens. That might have something to do with the NPS's overall perception while managing the parkland. They've seen it, and they've got to clean it up. Not that I condone their rigid policy on the sport.
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MZiebell
Social climber
Prescott, AZ
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Dec 22, 2006 - 11:59am PT
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Well, I don't know where the policy came from. But I do recall in an NPS naturalist training sess I went through that part of what steers policy in the parks is that any proposed activity (that is novel) be evaluated as to whether it augments or distracts from the visitors meaningful interaction with "the resource".
Base jumping would probably fall into the "distractor" class.
So might climbing, but as a so-called "traditional use" it is generally accepted.
I think that's how that goes...
Any NPS NATS out there want to chime in?
Martin
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Appliance
Social climber
Yosemite
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Dec 22, 2006 - 01:25pm PT
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Management Policies 2006
The Guide to Managing the National Park System
8.2.2.7 Parachuting
Parachuting (or BASE jumping), whether from an aircraft, structure, or natural feature, is generally prohibited by 36 CFR 2.17(a)(3). However, if determined through a park planning process to be an appropriate activity, it may be allowed pursuant to the terms and conditions of a permit.
From the Wilderness act of 1964
PROHIBITION OF CERTAIN USES
(c) Except as specifically provided for in this chapter, and subject to existing private rights, there shall be no commercial enterprise and no permanent road within any wilderness area designated by this Act and, except as necessary to meet minimum requirements for the administration of the area for the purpose of this Act (including measures required in emergencies involving the health and safety of persons within the area), there shall be no temporary road, no use of motor vehicles, motorized equipment or motorboats, no landing of aircraft, no other form of mechanical transport, and no structure or installation within any such area.
My understanding:
By regulation in USFS and BLM areas parachutes are defined as mechanical transport. In NPS areas that defination is not regulation, but is understood to be the same.
All BASE historical Yosemite BASE launch sites except Glacier Point are in designated wilderness. The floor of Yosemite Valley is not.
Under NPS regulation 36 CFR §2.17 Aircraft and air delivery.
(a) The following are prohibited:
(1) Operating or using aircraft on lands or waters other than at locations designated pursuant to special regulations.
(2) ...
(3) Delivering or retrieving a person or object by parachute, helicopter, or other airborne means, except in emergencies involving public safety or serious property loss, or pursuant to the terms and conditions of a permit.
36 CFR §1.4 What terms do I need to know?
(a)...
Aircraft means a device that is used or intended to be used for human flight in the air, including powerless flight.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Dec 22, 2006 - 02:28pm PT
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It sure seems by national regulations there is wiggle room.
Ok, so Glacier Point is not in designated wilderness, along with the valley floor so that is why the HG pilots have been able to cooperatively work out a system that allows them to fly. I'm all in favor of it, and would not want to jeopordize what the "hangies" have so brilliantly been able to work out. It proves that cooperation between our national free-flight organization USHPA and the NPS can and does work.
So it seems to me it should also allow paragliders to do this, without any change in the spirit of the law. The launch that is used is a shallow launch, and only one tree would really need to be removed to safely allow paraglider pilots. Flying Yosemite in a Hang Glider is one of the most regulated flying sites in the nation. They only allow early morning "sled rides" no thermal flights, or we would be up all day. From what I know, Hang Glider pilots are on a waiting list to fly Yosemite. The same could easily be done for paraglider pilots.
BASE jumpers could if they get nationally organized (maybe they are, I don't know?), approach the NPS and say, hey let's work together, let's put past sins behind us and let's work out a system that will allow BASE jumpers on a very early morning regulated basis, along with a waiting list, lawfully jump off the big block "diving board" at Glacier Point. BASE jumpers would have to agree to this and stop bandito illegal jumps off "El Cap" or no agreement, no jumps.
It would be a hard choice to make for many BASE jumpers for sure. The real prize is jumping off El Cap.
But there is no reason why the NPS should exclude paragliders from flying Yosemite. We are in the same organization the United States Hang Gliding & PARAGLIDING Association (USHPA).
Damn it! I demand my right to fly my paraglider off Glacier Point just as the hangies do. I will wait. Put my name on a list, whatever. In no way should this jeopardize the hangies from continueing to fly. I don't want to hear this bullshit arguement from HG pilots or the NPS.
And the NPS shouldn't hang that arguement over any other user group. "Well, if everyone asks to fly or jump, then we are just going to shut it down for everyone." That is a base-less, chicken-sh#t, threatening and un-intelligent arguement.
By the way, if I were fortunate enough to fly from a thermal site just West of Yosemite National Park and thermal over the entire park, never landing within park boundaries and then landed in Lee Vining they couldn't do squat about it. They, wouldn't even know I was there. Ok, doing that is a dream and another story. But, it is possible and legal.
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Bodega, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 22, 2006 - 02:33pm PT
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Is there a flight ceiling for aircraft over the park?
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Burns
Trad climber
Arlington, VA
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Dec 22, 2006 - 02:37pm PT
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Very interesting.
In that case, it appears that the law exists solely to protect the resource, same as a law against motorized drills. It seems to me that this would shut the door on any civil action if there had been harm to the jumper, as the act is not defined as posing a risk to the participant or bystanders. I would say that the LEO was no more responsible for preventing the dangerous act than any other person. However, I still think my last argument that either the law is wrong or the ranger was wrong stands, it is just less serious.
And as far as entrapment goes, it is not in the least bit illegal for a LEO to represent himself as not a LEO. A lot of law enforcement depends heavily on this kind of thing. Undercover operations, stings, etc. and often such deception is critical to the safety of the LEO. Even so, entrapment is when a LEO induces or encourages someone to commit a crime that they otherwise would not have committed. In this case, the LEO would basically have had to hand a parachute to some hikers and told them to jump for it to be considered entrapment in a legal sense. The guys were going to the top of el cap with parachutes. They clearly intended to jump.
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MZiebell
Social climber
Prescott, AZ
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Dec 22, 2006 - 05:43pm PT
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When I was in YOSE a few years ago I heard that some El Cap jumpers decided simply to jump and accept the consequences by not running from LE, accepting the confiscation of their canopy and paying the fine. This may be an urban legend (as it were) but it seems like a reasonable approach to the issue.
As for flight ceilings I believe there is a recommendation of something like 2000 AGL (in which case I wasn't in compliance the time I did it). I'll make a call here in a little and find out.
M
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Appliance
Social climber
Yosemite
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Dec 22, 2006 - 05:57pm PT
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From:
Management Policies 2006
The Guide to Managing the National Park System
8.2.2.7 Parachuting
Parachuting (or BASE jumping), whether from an aircraft, structure, or natural feature, is generally prohibited by 36 CFR 2.17(a)(3). However, if determined through a park planning process to be an appropriate activity, it may be allowed pursuant to the terms and conditions of a permit.
The Wilderness Act of 1964
PROHIBITION OF CERTAIN USES
(c) Except as specifically provided for in this chapter, and subject to existing private rights, there shall be no commercial enterprise and no permanent road within any wilderness area designated by this Act and, except as necessary to meet minimum requirements for the administration of the area for the purpose of this Act (including measures required in emergencies involving the health and safety of persons within the area), there shall be no temporary road, no use of motor vehicles, motorized equipment or motorboats, no landing of aircraft, no other form of mechanical transport, and no structure or installation within any such area.
"no landing of aircraft, no other form of mechanical transport," is the important language here.
It is my understanding:
On USFS and BLM transport by parachute is defined by regulation as "mechanical transport". In NPS areas parachuting is not defined by the regulations, but is generally considered to be "mechanical transport", in line with the NPS's sister agencies. Thus launching from designated wilderness is prohibited. And clearly landing a parachute (hanglider or paraglider, etc.)in designated wilderness is prohibited.
Under the park regs. (36 CFR §1.4 What terms do I need to know?) Aircraft is defined thus:
(a)Aircraft means a device that is used or intended to be used for human flight in the air, including powerless flight.
All the historical BASE launch points in Yosemite are in designated wilderness except Glacier Point. The floor of Yosemite Valley is not wilderness.
BASE jumping in parks is controlled under:
36 CFR §2.17 Aircraft and air delivery.
(a) The following are prohibited:
(1) Operating or using aircraft on lands or waters other than at locations designated pursuant to special regulations.
(2) ...
(3) Delivering or retrieving a person or object by parachute, helicopter, or other airborne means, except in emergencies involving public safety or serious property loss, or pursuant to the terms and conditions of a permit.
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Appliance
Social climber
Yosemite
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Dec 22, 2006 - 06:04pm PT
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From:
Management Policies 2006
The Guide to Managing the National Park System
8.2.2.7 Parachuting
Parachuting (or BASE jumping), whether from an aircraft, structure, or natural feature, is generally prohibited by 36 CFR 2.17(a)(3). However, if determined through a park planning process to be an appropriate activity, it may be allowed pursuant to the terms and conditions of a permit.
The Wilderness Act of 1964
PROHIBITION OF CERTAIN USES
(c) Except as specifically provided for in this chapter, and subject to existing private rights, there shall be no commercial enterprise and no permanent road within any wilderness area designated by this Act and, except as necessary to meet minimum requirements for the administration of the area for the purpose of this Act (including measures required in emergencies involving the health and safety of persons within the area), there shall be no temporary road, no use of motor vehicles, motorized equipment or motorboats, no landing of aircraft, no other form of mechanical transport, and no structure or installation within any such area.
"no landing of aircraft, no other form of mechanical transport," is the important language here.
It is my understanding:
On USFS and BLM transport by parachute is defined by regulation as "mechanical transport". In NPS areas parachuting is not defined by the regulations, but is generally considered to be "mechanical transport", in line with the NPS's sister agencies. Thus launching from designated wilderness is prohibited. And clearly landing a parachute (hanglider or paraglider, etc.)in designated wilderness is prohibited.
Under the park regs. (36 CFR §1.4 What terms do I need to know?) Aircraft is defined thus:
(a)Aircraft means a device that is used or intended to be used for human flight in the air, including powerless flight.
All the historical BASE launch points in Yosemite are in designated wilderness except Glacier Point. The floor of Yosemite Valley is not wilderness.
BASE jumping in parks is controlled under:
36 CFR §2.17 Aircraft and air delivery.
(a) The following are prohibited:
(1) Operating or using aircraft on lands or waters other than at locations designated pursuant to special regulations.
(2) ...
(3) Delivering or retrieving a person or object by parachute, helicopter, or other airborne means, except in emergencies involving public safety or serious property loss, or pursuant to the terms and conditions of a permit.
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Appliance
Social climber
Yosemite
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Dec 22, 2006 - 06:52pm PT
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From:
Management Policies 2006
The Guide to Managing the National Park System
8.2.2.7 Parachuting
Parachuting (or BASE jumping), whether from an aircraft, structure, or natural feature, is generally prohibited by 36 CFR 2.17(a)(3). However, if determined through a park planning process to be an appropriate activity, it may be allowed pursuant to the terms and conditions of a permit.
From:
The Wilderness Act of 1964
PROHIBITION OF CERTAIN USES
(c) Except as specifically provided for in this chapter, and subject to existing private rights, there shall be no commercial enterprise and no permanent road within any wilderness area designated by this Act and, except as necessary to meet minimum requirements for the administration of the area for the purpose of this Act (including measures required in emergencies involving the health and safety of persons within the area), there shall be no temporary road, no use of motor vehicles, motorized equipment or motorboats, no landing of aircraft, no other form of mechanical transport, and no structure or installation within any such area.
"no landing of aircraft, no other form of mechanical transport," is the important language here.
It is my understanding that on USFS and BLM transport by parachute is defined by regulation as "mechanical transport". In NPS areas parachuting is not defined by the regulations as mechanical transport, but is generally considered to be, in line with the NPS's sister agencies. Thus launching from designated wilderness is prohibited. And clearly landing a parachute (hanglider or paraglider, etc.)in designated wilderness is prohibited.
Under the NPS regs. (36 CFR §1.4 What terms do I need to know?) aircraft is defined thus:
(a)Aircraft means a device that is used or intended to be used for human flight in the air, including powerless flight.
All the historical BASE launch points in Yosemite are in designated wilderness except Glacier Point. The floor of Yosemite Valley is not wilderness.
BASE jumping in parks is controlled under:
36 CFR §2.17 Aircraft and air delivery.
(a) The following are prohibited:
(1) Operating or using aircraft on lands or waters other than at locations designated pursuant to special regulations.
(2) ...
(3) Delivering or retrieving a person or object by parachute, helicopter, or other airborne means, except in emergencies involving public safety or serious property loss, or pursuant to the terms and conditions of a permit.
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Appliance
Social climber
Yosemite
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Dec 22, 2006 - 06:53pm PT
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Sorry for the multiple post but I am having trouble with the forum application.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Dec 22, 2006 - 09:22pm PT
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The HG in Yosemite is taken care of with this HG club in cooperation with the NPS:
Yosemite Hang Gliding Association
http://www.yhga.org/
As far as I can tell the minimum agl over most National Parks is about 3000' agl for private pilots, with a minimum set at 5000' agl for commercial sight seeing companies, although some National Parks say no over flights at all like the RMNP. Free flight Pilots fly into Teton National Park all the time because they fly off of Jackson Hole, but landing in the Park is a serious no-no:
National Parks Air Tour Management
[Federal Register: October 25, 2002 (Volume 67, Number 207)]
[Rules and Regulations]
http://www.epa.gov/fedrgstr/EPA-IMPACT/2002/October/Day-25/i27033.htm
All free-flight pilots fall under FAA rules, FAR 103:
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?sid=6c6985ef14a81095907964f3a8966713&c=ecfr&tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title14/14cfrv2_02.tpl
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=6c6985ef14a81095907964f3a8966713&rgn=div5&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.3.16&idno=14
Let's say I was to attempt to do a trans Sierra flight in my Paraglider over Yosemite National Park, and my real intention was to go cross-country and NOT to land in the park. Then picking the right day with good conditions to do so in the Spring with fair weather Cumulas clouds lining up from the West slope of the Sierras to Lee Vining with a cloud base say, maybe 13,000'. And then attempting to do so in flight for some emergency purpose I had to bail to safely land let's say in Toulomne Meadows due to losing lift or some other emergency, I could land, and not be legally in trouble. It has happened with HG pilots over the years, even landing in the valley while trying to go cross-country. In the short term it would definately feel like big trouble. Upon landing I would expect to be surrounded by NPS rangers, probably have my equipment confiscated, but upon investigating the situation they would have to realize that it was an attempted cross-country flight and the landing was an honest emergency. The FAA laws trump NPS laws when it comes to emergencies.
With more experience on my part, it would be a great flight to attempt someday. No one has made a trans Sierra flight on a paraglider yet. Very easy to do in Sailplanes, I would guess it has been done in a HG (although I'm not sure really??), but it definately hasn't been done in a paraglider yet. Flying from the West slope of the Sierras through Yosemite National Park eastward to Lee Vining would be the place to do it with the Hwy and Toulomne Meadows safely below.
Will Gadd could do this flight. Calling Will Gadd. Will are you there???
I would love to do this flight. It would be a dream.
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MZiebell
Social climber
Prescott, AZ
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Dec 23, 2006 - 10:58pm PT
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Thanks Klimmer and Appliance for your posts.
Klimmer, I liked your plan but lost you when you landed in TM. Why not just keep flying on down through the Valley and out? Wouldn't that be much less hassle?
Oh boy: that would be some great flying!
M
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 23, 2006 - 11:04pm PT
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So here is my question.
If you jump off of the Captain and fly all the way to El Portal ,which is outside the park, by either B.A.S.E. with the squirrel suit or para glider are you still busted as illegal?
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Herndie
climber
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Dec 24, 2006 - 12:55am PT
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Werner,
I have tried writing this about five times now. Get this..jumping El Cap for the first time is as fresh on my mind as it was in real life twenty plus years ago. Some things are like that, and damn few. I can't really remember topping out on El Cap the first time that well, and some of my funnest climbing adventures are also lost in a tangle of old neurons. Loss of virginity, stuff like that. It just fades.
Other moments stay fresh. The cold. The sound. The vision. The fear before hand was so intense I wanted to vomit, but when I did it, it all melted away. Time seemed to go on and on. You know what I am talking about.
Holding my son in my arms was definitely the best, though.
I didn't carve my initials in a tree. I didn't drive drunk to get there or leave. I didn't bother anyone. Nobody even knew except me and two friends. We made some noise on the way down for about ten seconds. Winter. No climbers around. All I did was occupy an illegal XYZ coordinate in space.
All I know after all these years is that every dog has his day. I had my share of them and I won't let go of that if I come back in the next world as a bug.
And another thing. The prevailing upper level winds in CA are from the west to the east.
And I had a buddy get his ass busted for jumping Glacier Point.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Dec 24, 2006 - 10:43am PT
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Flying off anywhere other than Glacier Point with a paraglider or HG is illegal,and then of course you have to have permission. They don't allow paragliders YET. They should, there really isn't any excuse for not letting them.
But launching outside the park and flying West to East (yes with the prevailing upper winds) and crossing over the entire park without landing is theoretically possible given good conditions and then land out in Lee Vining at the HS football field which we sometimes do use as an LZ. This flight would be perfectly legal.
But launching anywhere in the Park, and then flying out to land outside the park would still be illegal. And I'm sure they would drive out of the park if you were seen launching and follow and try to bust you when you land out.
The perfectly legal flight would be awesome to do sometime. I'm putting it on my life goals list.
Klimmer
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mdavid
Big Wall climber
CA, CO, TX
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Dec 24, 2006 - 11:04am PT
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It seems that park rangers are more interested in harrassing climbers and base jumpers than they are in keeping the tourons from destroying the place. Seems like the right thing to do would have been to tell them LEO status and explain why if they jump they will be arrested. Of course that would obviate having to sieze property, bring down the hammer and arrest these guys. Isn't the intent really clear from the LEO's actions?
Shouldn't they be chasing the fatties to their deaths for driving on paths and littering?
Would it be illegal to post rangers pictures on the net so fellow climbers could avoid being entrapped and abused by federal officials?
Who slept with Jacks wife anyway? Isn't it time to move on?
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LuckyPink
climber
the last bivy
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Dec 24, 2006 - 03:50pm PT
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yes its like skateboarding and buildering... protested only by those who can't do it.
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NickD
climber
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Dec 24, 2006 - 07:14pm PT
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I've been involved with BASE jumping since the early '80s, published a BASE magazine in the 90s, and currently keep the Worldwide BASE Fatality List at http://www.basefatalities.info/
When climbing accidents occur you know how the un-informed make assumptions, cast aspersions, and overlook the real causes and context. Well, BASE jumpers suffer that ten-fold. Please keep that in mind as we go along here . . .
BASE jumping (or fixed object jumping as it was called originally) began (as a sport) when a skydiving/photographer named Carl Boenish organized an expedition to Yosemite's El Capitan in 1978 to film four jumpers from Lake Elsinore, California making the leap.
The catalyst for this was a trip Carl made to the Park three years earlier to film some hang glider jumps. The hang glider was launched with a pilot and two skydivers aboard, flew out over the Valley, and the jumpers exited, formed a quick two-way, and then landed in the meadow below.
Rangers charged Carl with filming without a permit, and the jumpers with violating the, "aerial delivery law." This was a law on the books since the '60s (at least) and the original intent was to keep back country hunters from re-supplying themselves via parachute (with grub and ammo) and thus extending their time on the hunt.
However, while Carl was in the Valley waiting for the hang glider to appear he is staring up at the shear walls of El Capitan, and he recalled a story he had heard as a younger jumper. In 1966 two skydivers named Mike Pelkey and Brian Schubert hiked the backside of El Capitan and jumped using the state of the art gear of that time. The problem was the state of art was pretty sorry. These are basically military surplus parachute systems from the Korean War era and just suitable for the task at hand. Yet both managed to live through it, even though they both hit the wall on the way down and their round parachutes just weren't controllable enough.
Every skydiver heard that story, me included, and the consensus in the jumping community was this was a one-off stunt by two knuckleheads out on a lark. We all laughed and promptly forgot about it. But now, as Carl continued to gaze around the Valley, he realized that with the advances made in gear and technique since 1966 not only was it possible, it might even be repeatable.
The first four "modern" jumps from El Capitan went flawlessly and the group left the park without notice.
A month later (1978) I was jumping at Lake Elsinore when the word was passed that Carl Boenish was going to show a new movie that evening. So after sunset we broke out the beer and settled in to watch. Carl, by that time was the most famous skydiving cinematographer of his day, and anything new from him was not to be missed. (Carl had filmed all the aerial scenes from the MGM movie "The Gypsy Moths" starring Burt Lancaster and also had many other Hollywood credits.) But, it was his short skydiving films that were important to us.
He raised a small movie screen (remember those?) and the in the dark the projector revealed a dozen people hiking up a meandering trail. "Oh, great," I remember saying to no one in particular, "what's this? Somebody's vacation movies?" But as we watched we realized these people were jumpers we knew. And then the scene changed and there stood four jumpers on top of El Cap wearing their parachute rigs. We watched them launch, watched them fly away from the wall in freefall (called tracking) open their ram-air (square) parachutes, and land gently in the meadow below. I dropped my beer.
Oh my god, this was no stunt, this was something any reasonably experienced skydiver could do. There were jumpers walking around after that had already been in the sport twenty years, and they are saying, "Man, I've never even thought of that." And that was the night BASE jumping was born.
That film made it way from drop zone to drop zone and all over the world. The genie was out of the lamp, so to speak, and there was no putting it back in. At the time I had only about two hundred jumps and didn't feel ready for it myself, but I know someday I would be and I couldn't wait. I finally made my first BASE jump from a bridge and it was my 601 parachute jump.
But now the Rangers had a problem. Besides the aerial delivery law, there was no specific law that banned BASE jumping. And we thought if the hang glider pilots could fly on NPS land then so could we.
Our national organization, the United Sates Parachute Association (USPA) became involved and in the 1980, the NPS allowed us to jump by permit for a limited time. Now, its very important to know that at the time we weren't BASE jumpers – we were just skydivers parachuting from cliffs – the sport of BASE was years away from maturing into something unto its own, and this worked well for the Rangers.
They knew they didn’t have a good reason to prevent the jumps outright so they set up a lot of rules for us to follow and of course we busted every one of them, and numerous times. The entire legal season lasted three weeks and it was stopped. We jumped without permits, we jumped at night, we did everything they knew we would do, but now the Rangers had the ammunition to shut it down and they did.
Our problem was, that at the time, skydivers were coming from all over the world, just to make the jump once and then they headed back to their home drop zones with that jump in their log books. But then a few years later we started to realize that while skydiving and fixed object jumping were sister sports – they were really two very different things. By 1983 we started jumping other objects besides cliffs. Bridges, Buildings, and Antenna towers are now being jumped. Carl saw a pattern in the jumps they were making and using a dictionary found the word BASE, now an acronym for Building, Antenna, Span, and Earth.
A Texan, with Carl at the time, named Phil Smith, was the first one to say it out loud, "BASE jump," he said, "then this would be BASE jumping," and finally, "we are BASE jumpers!" And so it became a separate sport with its own rules, its own special gear, its own history and its own future.
There was a freedom aspect to it all that just overwhelmed us. No longer were we tied down to the drop zone, to the airplanes, to the skydiving politics (yes, like climbers we have that too) and now if you were sitting home on a Wednesday night and there was nothing on TV you could just go downtown and jump.
Everything was cool for a while, we stayed very low key, and basically no one, but us knew what we were doing. Most BASE jumps occurred at night and we became, in the eyes of the skydiving community, the bad boys of parachuting. So instead of fighting the image we went with it. We flew the Jolly Roger, laughed at people who only jumped from planes, but we paid the price for that. Those of us who were already established skydivers began losing friends and jobs too. I was a skydiving Instructor at the time and I lost two jobs when the drop zone owner found out I also BASE jumped. But Carl Boenish had a good line for that problem, "I lost a lot of friends," he later said, "but I made a lot of new ones."
Carl was killed in 1984 jumping the Troll Wall in Norway. I'll never forget that night the phones rang in the homes of BASE jumpers the world over. We couldn’t believe it. The Father of modern BASE jumping was dead. But, we didn’t stop, we knew Carl was right, just as Mike and Brian were right back in 1966. They were just too far ahead of the times.
Then the year 2000 came and it happened. While the first generation of BASE jumpers, my generation, stayed underground, the advent of internet video, the emergence of gear manufacturers building specific BASE gear, the advent of BASE jumping classes, and the fact that in places all over Europe BASE jumping was not considered illegal the sport exploded. We, the older guys, tried to keep everything chilled, especially here in the USA, shunning publicity at all costs in an effort to preserve what jumping sites we had. But then came the Site Burners. These newer BASE jumpers didn't care about what the last guy did, and worse, they didn’t care what the next guy would do.
Some would actually alert the local TV news and then jump a building we had been quietly jumping for years, thereby ruining the site for future jumpers, but hey they got their mugs on TV. Older climbers must see semi-likewise problems in newer climbers, and I don’t know what you call them, but we just call ours Glory Hounds.
Someone up-board asked about numbers. It's tough to pin down and BASE jumping is, at 27 years old, still in its infancy, but there was time I knew, or at least recognized the name, of every BASE jumper in the world. At that time (early '80s) there were about 150 of us who were going at it hardcore. Today there are thousands of BASE jumpers all over the world and more everyday. Here are some statistics – Bridge Day is an event held in West Virginia every October and for one day we are allowed to jump from the 870-foot New River Bridge. This event has been held every year since 1980. The first few years saw only a handful of jumpers but nowadays the event averages 400 jumpers whop make 800 jumps in a six hour period. In all that time there have been two fatalities. And don’t for moment think that bridge isn't being jumped by small groups at other times too.
We almost lost the event in 1987, or so, as the land below the bridge was purchased by the NPS. They immediately said no more BASE jumping. But the town's people rose up. A town's people who depended on the 250,000 spectators (yes, I said two hundred and fifty thousand) who came every year to watch us. It's what got the town through their winter. Now the NPS was stuck. Their argument was BASE jumping wasn't safe enough to be allowed on National Park land, but here we were, year in and year out, right under their noses, and doing just fine. And there is nothing they can do about it. If anything jumping El Cap in Yosemite is safer than the New River Bridge as it's higher and the landing area is better.
We still jump El Cap of course. But unlike the two recently busted on the wall, we have become very good at doing it and nobody sees us. You don’t see us, the tourists don’t see us, and the Rangers don’t see us 99 percent of the time. We jump all the time on BLM land as that is not prohibited at all. And we will jump in Yosemite legally again some day; it's just a matter of time.
Like a lot of you climbers, I've lost many friends to our sport over the years. But I can take that. It's the price we paid to get where we're at. What I can’t tolerate is the needless deaths of Frank Gambalie and Jan Davis, both of which were caused in-directly by the current policy of the NPS. As to the safety record of BASE in Yosemite when I first jumped it we were keeping count of every one who did, and I was the 667th person to do it in about 1990. Minding that some of those people made multiple jumps, I could only estimate the numbers of jumps made there to date. And I don’t think you believe me if I did give you an estimate. There have been just four BASE fatalities in Yosemite. The first one is back in 1982 when we weren't all that sure what all we were doing. The next three were spread out over time and Jan Davis was the last one in 1999.
I'll go back to what I said earlier. As non-jumpers (most of you) you can find all kinds of holes in what I'm telling you. I just ask that you remember how non-climbers think of what you do – because like Janis said, "It's all the same thing, man . . ."
NickD
BASE #194
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mdavid
Big Wall climber
CA, CO, TX
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Dec 24, 2006 - 09:41pm PT
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It really seems that we should unite and communicate our concerns to those in power.
I believe that park rangers in yosemite and joshua tree national parks are disproportionally aggressing on the climbing population and creating a hostile environment for our park land use group.
While federal officers may commonly find violations of minor drug posession, illegal camping and BASE jumping activities among this group the enforcement, tactics and effort are inappropriately harsh.
The most reasonable and effective tactic may be to unite by documenting our experiences and appealing to elected officals for intervention. Maybe strategizing on alternative measures such as replacing the rangers focused on a LEO role in the valley with a privately owned security/police force who are more responsive to the needs of citizens. We should challenge the budget which is funding the time spent on this disproportionate harrassment. Another fresh alternative might be diverting funds spent on these efforts toward SAR and environmental repair efforts.
You gotta wonder when it's time to end the age old practice of harrassment by our federal officials in the parks.
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MZiebell
Social climber
Prescott, AZ
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Dec 24, 2006 - 10:50pm PT
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Hey NickD,
Thank you for that great piece of writing. I've been educated. I'm impressed with the depth of history and emotion in your post.
Thanks for shedding light on what BASE jumping is all about.
Martin
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville
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Dec 24, 2006 - 11:43pm PT
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Nick,
That was a sincere look into a very misunderstood sport.
I've read much that you've written over the years and have a few friends that basejump.
While I've settled into a relatively quiet family lifestyle these days I often wonder where my life would have taken me had I accepted invites to skydive and gain the tools to basejump with my friends.
Climbers are seeing a flood of access issues these days and it doesn't seem to be getting better.
These two sports have many things in common, good and bad. I think many climbers would have been jumpers had they been introduced to it at the right time.
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LuckyPink
climber
the last bivy
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Dec 25, 2006 - 12:24am PT
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NickD... great post thanks so much for the information and more than just information.. If you don't mind I just sent it out to several friends, skydivers thinking about going to BASE. I'm sure it will be very well received. L.P.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Dec 25, 2006 - 01:44am PT
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NickD, Thank You for your excellent post! I know a fair number of BASE jumpers and they don't get a fair shake at all. There really is an interesting 30 year out of synch parallel between the public perception of Climbers and BASE jumpers. Climbing, once a deviant fringe Devil may care dirtbag diversion, has become Madison Avenue mainstream acceptable advertising fodder. BASE jumping is still only at the 007 adventure cinema stage of universal acceptance. Don't worry you guys will get your Wheaties box some day. Or maybe that thought should make you worry more. That said, I think the NPS policy is stale crackers.
Chasing someone to their death by drowning has NO justification!BASE is a beautiful and amazing sport that should be allowed on "this land is your land this land is my land".. Certainly BASE has dangers but so does big walling and ice climbing and endurance horse racing. Statistically, I'd bet, more people get injured bouldering than BASE jumping. Yeah I know that occasionally a BASE jumper will perish in some particularily messy way in full view of a misunderstanding public. Those kinds of unfortunate incidents should in no way infer that BASE jumping be banned any more than the unfortunate incident on Mount Hood should infer that mountain climbing be banned.
The Queen of England once thought that mountain climbing should be banned from the Empire and illegal for her citizens. She percieved that since Everest had proved quite deadly that mountaineering was inherently a fool hearty endeavour of no real value. Well aren't we all fool hearty SOBs.
LET MY PEOPLE JUMP. 321cya
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Bodega, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 25, 2006 - 01:29pm PT
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Thanks Nick. This thread has come along nicely from getting nuked to a piece of history!
IMHO it's important to note that climbing has had a long battle to achieve acceptance in the mainstream and positive relationships with land managers. BASE jumping will have to fight that same battle. While we climbers accept our freefalling brothers as kindred spirits, we must also let them work this out, being careful not to risk the access we have won. These are two very different sports with different origins and safety concerns, it just happens that they are played on the same field. While I fully support BASE Jumping's viability and legality, I don't think it's in climbers interests to have land managers lump climbers and jumpers into the same lot.
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artifact
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Dec 25, 2006 - 03:38pm PT
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Wow.. I've always been blown away by BASE jumping and all of the flying sports. You guys have my support!
Some years ago when living in the valley I met an older guy in his 80's or so who had hang glided off GP hundereds of times. His description of his experience took me back to the first time I saw that IMAX "to fly" or something like that. I guess he had taken up the sport later in life, like @ age 60 or 70... rad!
BASE jumping and the parachute sports too has really opened up the realm for so many new things. Big Mountain skiing with parachutes or kites, expedition kites/ foils, ski BASE all that stuff is amazing.
How about that ACRO-BASE. These guys skiing big mountain lines with a chute down the EIGER.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3JnFXWy-UE
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nez
Social climber
confusion
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Dec 25, 2006 - 11:37pm PT
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I thought that Lober was fired. Tim Toomey said that he filed a complaint and that he got him fired, Guess Toomey was full o's##T.
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MZiebell
Social climber
Prescott, AZ
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Dec 25, 2006 - 11:58pm PT
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Tim Toomey the politician?
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d_goldsmith
Mountain climber
Seattle
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Dec 26, 2006 - 03:32am PT
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I'm very interested in climbing, but haven't gotten to learn as much as I'd like yet. I'm half way through "On Rope" and I've had a 1 year climbing membership at a couple local gyms. I love handjamming. I've only done one alpine climb so far, but I do a lot of hiking and some bouldering.
I'm posting as a BASE jumper though to say thank you to all the people that have understanding for BASE in NPS. It would not only save money for the NPS not having to enforce, but it would increase the revenue by all the BASE jumpers that would be going to NPS land. However, they wouldn't get the additional money that they get from the fines?
Thanks again and someday when I'm worthy of calling myself a climber maybe I'll meet some of you.
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MZiebell
Social climber
Prescott, AZ
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Dec 26, 2006 - 11:22am PT
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Goldsmith,
You ARE worthy just by deciding to figure it out and tie-in. No need to buy-in to the "I've got to climb 5.12 to be included" silliness. As long as you're having fun on the rock and keeping yourself and your partner alive, you're IN!!!
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Slider_up
Ice climber
Irvine, CA
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Dec 27, 2006 - 12:16pm PT
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J-Tree is pretty f-ing bad.
I've had a couple run-ins with the Rangers there over the past 10 years. This is funny to me because I am an absolutely low key, law abiding person. I have never been arrested. I've never even had a misdemeanor. But I've been hassled for being "drunk" and also for double parking in front of a campsite while unloading stuff. Drunk? It's a huge f*#king desert for heavens sake. Double parked? Arggh!
NPS Rangers have been dicks to me several times in Yosemite too.
I truly believe that if more NPS rangers put in some time working as cops in the big cities (San Fran, NY, LA), they would most likely lighten up quite a bit. They would still enforce the law, but also be respectful at the same time.
NPS rangers just seem to come off as "agitated" by the simplest of things.
This would definately change if more of us starting started drawing attention to it.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Dec 27, 2006 - 06:03pm PT
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Nick D.,
Enjoyed your post. Thanks. There was a time I thought about BASE while I was starting skydiving. I ran into Earl Redfern and found him to be pretty inspirational. But, now I paraglide. I think what you guys are doing, especially with the wing suits is incredible. Don't know if I'll ever BASE jump but I sure get a rush out of footage that you guys shoot.
Like I said before, I'd probably BASE jump just enough to get a patch, but everything I would jump would be wickedly high and severally overhung. And then immediately retire the BASE rig. Do you guys still do patches or is that old school?
Thanks for the stories :-))
Klimmer
On vacation in Bishop.
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NickD
climber
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Dec 27, 2006 - 08:48pm PT
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Yes, we still do the BASE patch along with the BASE numbers. We are up to about BASE 1100 as of now. You can look here to see a graph on this:
http://www.basenumbers.org/ui.asp
For those wondering - if you make at least one jump in each of the four categories, Building, Antenna, Span (bridge) and Earth (cliff) you are issued a sequential BASE number award.
The first award, BASE 1, went to Phil Smith in 1982. There are far more than 1100 BASE jumpers in the world of course – but some are geographically challenged and lack certain object types in their area, and also there is a certain amount of people who aren't the award type . . .
NickD
BASE 194
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Richard Sims
Trad climber
LeVagina,Co
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Nick D
I filmed for Carl Baineish (sp) one of the last leagal jumps off the Captain. Carl I heard went off top on a skate board tied to a line. Good for me on El Cap Towers. I think only Rollie? Of the three of us took Carl up on jumping lessons. If I hadn’t filmed one of the jumpers disappear into the trees I would have had a greater interest. Small regret Be well
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Strongerdog
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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I was on Tis-sa-ack with my partner back in June of 1996. We were up high just finishing for the day on the Ramp when two BASE jumpers flew by us. Of course at first we though rockfall with the noise they created, but as soon as the first guy went by and began tracking out from the wall we knew. I was amazed at the tracking curve that we were able to view from our perch. The first guy looked like he was going to deck on the slabs, then pulled at the last second and flew up the valley. His buddy did the same a few seconds later, pulling a bit quicker, and they both disappeared to the sound of our screams of support. I remeber turning to my partner and saying "if they got half the rush I just got - frickin amazing". Are any of you BASE posters out there the guys we saw that day?
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NickD
climber
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Richard,
Carl did it on stilts (tied off) too. He was a bit goofy for things like that.
And, oh yes, wasn't Rollie a character . . . I miss him.
Strongerdog,
I'm not sure what the statute of limitations are, so no it wasn't me, LOL . . .
I'll say thanks for the kind words though. And only because there's been times in the past when climbers kind of bagged on us for jumping while they were on the wall. However, I understood their concerns as while the chances of jumper/climber collisions are nil, there is the "surprise" factor that, to some, could be a bit disconcerting.
It's another reason I wish they'd give us a legal 1-hour window in the early mornings to jump – that way nobody would be taken by surprise . . .
NickD
BASE 194
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Strongerdog
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Nick, did you ever work on Vashon Island a few years back? If so, I am the guy you traded with a few times.
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
the greasewood ghetto
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Apr 14, 2009 - 08:49pm PT
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bump
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Apr 14, 2009 - 08:58pm PT
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Base jumping is a crime. I've seen the bumper sticker, I believe it.
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Clayman
Trad climber
CA, now Flagstaff
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Apr 14, 2009 - 10:59pm PT
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It is unfortunate that the ranger busted the jumpers after assuring them he was not a ranger. It is unfortunate that that ranger didn't act with more integreity of character and do his job of protecting and serving. Instead, he waited them to jump, busted them, and got his jollies of the whole gig. I would like to think, but am not that naive, that that the tool would rather admit to the jumpers he was indeed a tool and was going to bust them if they jumped, in the interest of keeping them alive and discouraging them from a dangerous, life threatining activity. Not too long ago,i was lost in the hood and had a cop pull me over and tell me that I was going to get shot for being white in the wrong neighborhood. He then escorted me back to the safe area of town. This is a fine example of an LEO doing his job. Outright lying to the jumpers and saying he was not a tool, letting them make the illegeal jump an not discouraging them from a life threating activity with a heavy fine is not professional conduct for an ambassador of the law and Yosemite. The example set by the Officer that pulled me over, let me know i was in danger, and escorted me out of it is a shinning example of protecting and serving. The ranger who lied and did not look out for the well being of the jumpers, and who probably got a bonus for busting a couple jumpers, is a shinning example of a tool.
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Apr 14, 2009 - 11:05pm PT
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Ranger Keith Lober fell victim to "collar addiction."
The most important thing to this kind of officer is to make the collar (arrest). So he outright lies in order to set the guy up and be waiting (and cooks up all the fatuous justification for being a bold faced bullshitter). Doubt it? Take the chance of making the arrest out of the equation, and Ranger Keith Lober tells the truth to the ass hats jugging the lines. But then there's no drama nor collar - and life in the Valley can get boring for rangers.
My cousin used to be head ranger in Yo. You don't want that job.
JL
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Clayman
Trad climber
CA, now Flagstaff
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Apr 14, 2009 - 11:32pm PT
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It seems like some valley rangers need to take a step back, catch their collective breath, look at el cap under a full moon, sit beneath thousand foot waterfalls, go climb the perfect rostrum cracks, walk the lost arrow slackline, epic rapping off middle cathedral, and think about why they are there and what impact their presence as a ranger has on the preservation and visitor safety, of and in, one of the most sacred places in the world.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Apr 15, 2009 - 12:20am PT
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" It is unfortunate that that ranger didn't act with more integreity of character and do his job of protecting and serving. Instead, he waited them to jump, busted them, and got his jollies of the whole gig."
It's Lober.
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Xela
climber
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Apr 30, 2013 - 10:28am PT
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Sad news. RIP Fernando.
Notch Peak Base Jumper Dies in Accident
By Kenzey Erickson
Published on April 29, 2013 at 12:10PM
35 year old Fernando Motta died in an accident in Millard County Sunday when he and two friends base jumped from Notch Peak. Motta did not get enough lift and was not able to clear the cliffs before he crashed and died on impact. Motta’s body was located Sunday evening by Life Flight but was not able to be recovered due to wind conditions. Millard County Sheriff’s Search and Rescue and the Department of Public Safety helicopter reached Motta’s body where it was recovered on Monday. Motta was described by his friends as a professional climber and jumper.
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 30, 2013 - 11:14am PT
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"Base jump" goes wrong in Russia"
This guy decks into the ground and lives because of the snow.
His chute did not open.
Mind blower .... you can see how scared he is before taking off.
Is this fake?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXogeqNJPhY
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Bullwinkle
Boulder climber
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Apr 30, 2013 - 11:35am PT
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R.I.P Fernando, you were a Good Wildman, you will be missed. DF
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
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Apr 30, 2013 - 04:34pm PT
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I've been trying to find the thread where Largo mentions this years Ascent magazine. Anyway, I read Largo's Base jump story in the new Ascent, not knowing what to expect, and it's the best story in there so far, and that's after reading the Robbins account of the first ascent of the NA Wall. Largo's story is moving and sobering.
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micronut
Trad climber
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Apr 30, 2013 - 05:06pm PT
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Werner, it's fake. There's a cut/edit, right at the end where the snow plume "dissappears" unnaturally. Pretty easy to see if you're looking for it. Spooky to watch the first time though.
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