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John Mac
Trad climber
Breckenridge, CO
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very tragic. He was an inspiration.
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Damn. He was an amazing soul, no doubt about it. I first learned about him from that excellent documentary about the Race Across America. I've done a lot of long-distance touring, and the risk of getting smacked is always there. Because of cell phones, I feel the risk has definitely increased. With Hall's insane mileage, he was in the line of fire a lot. A real shame. Ride on, Mike Hall. In heaven, cars are used for planters, and everyone rides a bike.
BAd
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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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Awful, terrible news. His Tour Divide rides are legendary and inspirational.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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hey there say, ... oh my, this is so awful... :(
dear family and friends of mike:
my condolences and prayers at this awful sad time, as,
you now go onward without your loved one, :(
thank you, rockermike, for sharing, so we can
do the little that we can to just show we care...
oh my, a real good-guy, and dearly loved:
Race organisers said in a statement: “Mike revelled in the spirit and adventure of ultra-endurance cycling events. Mike’s efforts in both raising money and the spirits of others were tremendous and he leaves an incredible legacy.”
:(
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Jun 18, 2017 - 08:03pm PT
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If you use your phone while driving ? STOP IT.
x2
At most every traffic light around here there's a new 5+ second "phone delay" when the light turns green. It seems to be widely accepted too as just about every driver is furiously pecking away or staring at a glowing screen.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Jun 18, 2017 - 08:37pm PT
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When you're sitting in the driver's seat of your car hold up a pencil vertically about steering wheel distance away. That's what it takes to conceal a cyclist.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jun 18, 2017 - 09:49pm PT
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I'm certain that phones and texting are large contributors, but it's an attitudinal thing.
Cyclists, peds
Other cars be damned
My interests, puny as they may be, are more important than your life.
Almost makes you want to get packed and start shooting out of being in fear for your life.
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
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Jun 18, 2017 - 10:03pm PT
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Sad RIP -I seen so much destruction within the last year - dumbf*#k drivers oblivious to everything. Witnessed (at close range) a longboarder get hit by a car 2 days ago. Because of this I only ride on the sidewalk, but even that wasn't enough - an AH within inches would have taken me out if I hadn't swerved a bit.
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BruceHildenbrand
Social climber
Mountain View/Boulder
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Jun 19, 2017 - 04:26am PT
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I rode with a guy last year who was run over by a 16-year old who was texting. The car behind the teenager saw the whole thing unfolding and was blaring his horn trying to get the driver's attention. Even that didn't work.
It's a pity that when you talk to some drivers they say that they are more attentive when driving if they are using their cell phone. Stanford University did a study a few years ago to see how productive people are when they are multitasking(like driving a car and texting a the same time). The gave a group of people five tasks to perform.
In the first phase of the test the participants had one minute each to complete each of the five tasks. In the second phase the participants were given the a block of five minutes to complete all the tasks which was supposed to simulate multitaksing. Not surprisingly, the completion rate was much higher when the participants were given one minute to complete each task and not multitasking.
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Gunkie
Trad climber
Valles Marineris
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Jun 19, 2017 - 05:29am PT
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There are 'ghost bikes' popping up all around my extended neighborhood in eastern PA where there are a ton of cyclists. One inattentive moment and many lives are changed forever. I stopped road riding because of this; I only mountain bike now. And that's even filled with lunatic riders that are dangerous to others. But that becomes one-on-one and I have a much better chance in that circumstance than dealing with 3000 pounds of speeding metal.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Jun 19, 2017 - 05:31am PT
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Correct me if i'm wrong but there seems to be an emphasis on pulling over motorists who have a license plate light out in hopes of scoring a DUI while motorist driving wrecklessly get a free pass...Riding a bike around here seems to be getting riskier with all the type A flatlanders racing from point a to point b...
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Jun 19, 2017 - 07:14am PT
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In the first phase of the test the participants had one minute each to complete each of the five tasks. In the second phase the participants were given the a block of five minutes to complete all the tasks which was supposed to simulate multitaksing. Not surprisingly, the completion rate was much higher when the participants were given one minute to complete each task and not multitasking.
The human brain is a single-core processor when it comes to higher level tasks... you can spawn as many threads as you like but they're all serviced one at a time by the scheduler.
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Jun 19, 2017 - 07:21am PT
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It's a pity that when you talk to some drivers they say that they are more attentive when driving if they are using their cell phone.
Yes, they are attentive to the cell phone.
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SalNichols
Big Wall climber
Richmond, CA
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Jun 19, 2017 - 08:16am PT
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This is so ez to fix within the phone its ridiculous.
The phone knows that it's moving.
If velocity > 0 then airplane mode. Can't communicate at all, shut off the kybd. Only thing that should work is 911 calls. This should be the default state for a moving phone.
We drove for nearly 100 yrs without bloody phones in our cars.
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mooch
Trad climber
Tribal Base Camp (Kernville Annex)
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Jun 19, 2017 - 08:34am PT
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If velocity > 0 then airplane mode. Can't communicate at all, shut off the kybd. Only thing that should work is 911 calls. This should be the default state for a moving phone.
I like your way of thinking Sal. I'm right there with a few of you. Thinking of selling my road bike and going over to Mtn simply because I've had some close calls and feel that my ticket will eventually get punched. I'd much rather buy the farm from my own undoing. If anyone is interested, I have a 2013 Cannondale Hi-Mod Super Six Evo, all Dura Ace components and Enve 40 carbon wheel sets (Dura Ace 9000 standard crank with 11:28 cassette). It's in excellent condition. I can send photos.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jun 19, 2017 - 08:41am PT
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I have cut my road miles way down and stayed mostly on my mtb because of the phone thing. Seems like every day I see some near disaster. I miss the road, but the odds aren't as good as they used to be ;-(
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Jun 19, 2017 - 09:09am PT
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Seems that this is sort of like the Fox News crowd's belief that crime is getting worse when, in general, that isn't true.
From what I can find, bicycling is significantly safer than it used to be, although fatality numbers seem to be pretty flat in recent years, and of course, no one really knows how many people ride bikes for how many miles, so it's hard to have good insight in deaths per miles ridden.
Riding bikes has always been at least a somewhat risky proposition, probably kind of similar to climbing. The notion that it was safer "back in the day" (more than a few years ago) is fake news--fatalities peaked decades ago.
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landcruiserbob
Trad climber
PUAKO, BIG ISLAND Kohala Coast
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Jun 19, 2017 - 10:05am PT
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I MTB only now as well.
Texting and cyclist 🚴 wearing earphones a lot more make it deadly.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Jun 19, 2017 - 10:26am PT
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Seems to be climbing in recent years and is approaching the all-time high of 1000 back in 1975
Hmmm, if by approaching, you mean about 20% less, I guess that's right.
What was the population of the US in 1975 compared to today?
Like I said, this is fake news.
When you stop bicycling, take up shooting as a new activity so you can protect yourself against the current crime wave (remember homicide rates have been "climbing in recent years").
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Jun 19, 2017 - 10:47am PT
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I wouldn't favor a blanket ban on using a moving phone - what if you are a passenger or on a train or a bus?
It needs a way you could have it only apply to a driver - smarter sensors that detect if you are within 30 inches of the driving position.
There is actually technology now in cars that watches your eyeballs to see if you are getting sleepy. Something similar could detect whether your eyes are on the road and if not, sound the car alarm.
When satellite radio came out, a friend of mine had it and spent about 1/3 of total driving time looking at the music choices.
As we move toward automatic driving, cars are going to need such technology anyway. Tesla has had issues with people not knowing that they need to be prepared to instantly take over from the "autopilot" which is not a realistic operational expectation.
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nita
Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
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Jun 19, 2017 - 11:29am PT
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Sad news....Condolences to Mr Halls family, friends and fellow cyclists.
Riding a bike has become much more dangerous since the arrival of cell phones & texting.
As a life long bike commuter i have experienced, witness and heard of way too many incidents involving distracted drivers. On busy streets i now ride my bike down alleys, side streets, hop on sidewalks where it's legal, and i often plan more time to take longer safer routes to destinations...
I have plenty of cell phone related close call stories i can write about, but what i witness yesterday floored me......
I was riding down a medium busy road, when i passed a slow moving vehicle. The young woman behind the wheel was looking down and i noticed she was painting her fingernails while driving...She made a left hand turn before i could give her a lecture.
Singer songwriter , Rita Hosking wrote a song called, 6 seconds.. that is relevant to this topic.... Wish i knew how to share it from my facebook feed .
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Jun 19, 2017 - 11:58am PT
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I commute by bike, and will continue to do so. Yes, there are texters behind the wheel, but then, there have always been drunks, crazies, druggies, rabid bike-haters, and a whole lot of people who are just plain bad drivers.
One thing I've done to prolong my life is to assume that every single driver on the road is going to try to kill me.
Of course, the shoe fits the other foot just as well, and there are a lot of idiots on two wheels. And last week, I saw the ultimate...
...a guy texting while bicycling.
He was on the sidewalk, and weaving all over the place.
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Gunkie
Trad climber
Valles Marineris
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Jun 19, 2017 - 02:22pm PT
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Hmmm, if by approaching, you mean about 20% less, I guess that's right.
What was the population of the US in 1975 compared to today?
Like I said, this is fake news.
You should read the page. Childhood deaths on bikes have dropped by 88%, mostly due to helmets. However, the >20 years old death rate is climbing rather steadily.
Read, read for a change.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Jun 19, 2017 - 02:45pm PT
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You should read the page. Childhood deaths on bikes have dropped by 88%, mostly due to helmets. However, the >20 years old death rate is climbing rather steadily.
Read, read for a change.
Thank you, I read, and saw nothing to support the contention that the number of deaths per mile ridden has risen.
While the data doesn't really support making any firm conclusions, it seems unreasonable to deny that bicycling is now MUCH safer than it used to be (in the 70s).
It may well be that there has been a small rise in fatality rates (i.e., per miles ridden) in the past few years; it's also possible there hasn't been. We just can't tell from the evidence.
But this notion that bicycling is somehow much more dangerous than it used to be is simply wrong, and anecdotes like "I saw a girl putting on lipstick and she almost killed me" doesn't change that (don't you think women have been putting on lipstick while they drive for a long time?).
As I understand it, when the first started putting radios in cars, some people said that should be illegal as it would promote distracted driving. (Those people may have been right; I'm sure there have been many deaths caused by drivers fiddling with their radios.)
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Jun 19, 2017 - 05:27pm PT
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"the contention"
there was no contention about a rising rate per mile ridden,
only an overall total number.
Where is this evidence that bicycling on public roads is much safer than in the 70s?
Maybe it's relative. Car driving has become safer, while bicycling on public roads has not ??
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Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
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Jun 19, 2017 - 08:35pm PT
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Roll on Mike Hall . . . you lived and died on the road as a warrior would.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Jun 19, 2017 - 08:56pm PT
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Blah , blah , blah... The roads are more crowded , more cars and more careless drivers...Throw more cyclist into the mix and you have more death... and furthermore...
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Jun 19, 2017 - 09:38pm PT
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"the contention"
there was no contention about a rising rate per mile ridden,
only an overall total number.
Where is this evidence that bicycling on public roads is much safer than in the 70s?
Maybe it's relative. Car driving has become safer, while bicycling on public roads has not ??
The number of bicycle fatalities in the US was significantly higher in the US in the 70s than it is today, and the population was much lower then.
Those are facts.
I think that bicycling is more popular now than it was in the 70s (kids always rode bikes, then and now, but lots more adults ride now). I suppose that's conjecture on my part, but hard to see how people can really disagree. And even if they did, it wouldn't change the facts.
Danger only makes sense in the context of fatalities per miles ridden (or at least some similar metric). Absolute fatalities mean almost nothing when divorced from a population.
Would you say it's safer to live in El Salvador than in the US because there are fewer murders in El Salvador?
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rockermike
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 3, 2017 - 07:48am PT
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I was hit by a distracted texter a couple of years back. Fortunately she was on a bike and I was in my truck.
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Condolences to Eric the RAAM rider.
Those are some interesting--if grim--stats from up thread. Overall, cycling IS safer than it was in 1975--even if the number of cyclists killed climbs back to 1,000. The number of cars and cyclists has climbed significantly since then. USA Pop in 1975 = 216 million; pop in 2017 = 325 million. It's hard to find stats on number of riders for those years, but it sure seems to have increased--except among the younger set, which goes a long way in explaining the 88% drop in young rider fatalities. BITD, bike racks at school were PACKED. Now, virtually empty. What will get these kids is the long, slow burn of diabetes and heart disease later on. I had a great ride this morning, so I'm thinking about this a lot ride now.
Ride hard, be safe!
BAd
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