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Norton
Social climber
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Aug 16, 2017 - 09:48am PT
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Dingus, you have read the transcripts
there were two distinct groups of people at that KKK rally, them and the protestors of them
when President Trump said that there were "very fine people" on "both sides",
who, which particular individuals do you think he was referring to among the white nationalists, KKK, people as being very fine?
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Aug 16, 2017 - 10:04am PT
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He says a lot of things.... not so nuanced as a dyed in the wool politician who can speak out of both sides of mouth.
So what the difference between.... the lefty thugs who wear masks on their faces and the KKK who will get busted if they put on the hoods?
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Aug 16, 2017 - 10:23am PT
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At Carrier and beyond, workers are quitting manufacturing jobs in droves
At a time when the Trump administration argues that creating manufacturing jobs is a critical national goal, many factory workers are making a surprising decision: They’re giving up their jobs.
WaPost
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Aug 16, 2017 - 10:37am PT
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So what the difference between.... the lefty thugs who wear masks on their faces and the KKK who will get busted if they put on the hoods?
The underlying philosophy of each group is profoundly different:
The KKK believes in lynching uppity blacks, and keeping all minorities in a position of submission to whites, apparently like you do. Some also subscribe to the strategy of rounding up jews and minorities and putting them in ovens.
Those on the other side specifically oppose those ideas. They do not subscribe to subjugating the Klan or the Nazis, simply stopping their agenda.
Do you really not understand this? I think you're a simple troll.
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Aug 16, 2017 - 10:38am PT
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There were people in that rally - and I looked the night before. If you look, there were people protesting very quietly the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee. I'm sure in that group there were some bad ones.
He's talking about the rally the night before - Friday night - when the fine people marched carrying torches and chanting "Jews will not replace us" and "blood and soil."
But what Trump saw in that rally on Friday night was the very fine people quietly protesting. And he's not even sure that he saw the bad people - he's sure a few of them were there, but when he looked, what he saw was some fine people quietly protesting the removal of the statue.
At one point not so long ago, Trump said that he didn't know about David Duke (after having spoke about him on air years earlier). Maybe Trump didn't see him when he looked, either. IMHO, that says a lot about how Trump does or doesn't see things.
For me, I'm not one of the one in four Americans who believe what Trump says any more.
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dirtbag
climber
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Aug 16, 2017 - 10:44am PT
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He says a lot of things.... not so nuanced as a dyed in the wool politician who can speak out of both sides of mouth.
So what the difference between.... the lefty thugs who wear masks on their faces and the KKK who will get busted if they put on the hoods?
The president's remarks are indefensible.
Why are you lowering yourself by defending this as#@&%e?
What is there to defend after he talked about the "very fine" folks marching to defend the statue?
You're better than this.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Aug 16, 2017 - 10:52am PT
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Guyman, what is your position on how traitors to the USA should be viewed and treated?
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Aug 16, 2017 - 10:52am PT
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Agreed DMT. We don't know much of anything really. I didn't see it with my own eyes, and neither did he. But the way it keeps seeming to me is that Trump just keeps defending the racist as#@&%es regardless.
The good people who have an honest historical non-racist beef with removing the statue? I expect they ran away from that rally as fast as they could. IMHO, they're not the problem.
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dirtbag
climber
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Aug 16, 2017 - 10:57am PT
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He said what he said and I can't attest to who was marching, when or where.
But there are non-racists who object to the removal of confederate monuments. Objection to their removal does not a racist make.
DMT
There are such people. Misguided or ignorant, perhaps. But that was a "unite the right rally," a call for extremists and racists to show up.
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Aug 16, 2017 - 11:06am PT
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I think we make a mistake when we lump together intentional racism and unintentional racism. I think there's a lot more involuntary manslaughter racism than there is murder racism. I don't think that we need to characterize unintentional, unconscious "involuntary manslaughter racists" as "murder racists".
But still, 150 years after slavery ended, median white wealth is still 13 times median black wealth. And there are a lot of people who don't like that, and they have belief processes of their own.
How do we get people to change what they believe? IMHO, that's usually not really about what we say/think it's about.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Aug 16, 2017 - 11:10am PT
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But there are non-racists who object to the removal of confederate monuments. Objection to their removal does not a racist make.
Interesting assertion. On what basis would such people object? On the basis that the confederacy is part of history?
I can see that argument. However, my counter-argument is that the erection of a monument is rarely done to commemorate a person or historical fact, but to honor and celebrate it....which goes far beyond simply noting that something happened.
Are we erecting statues to Osama bin Laden? Why not, if historical importance is the reason for erecting monuments?
Spending public money, to place monuments on public land, is a statement of endorsement by gov't. It is the reason that religious symbols are generally not allowed, because it speaks to endorsement.
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dirtbag
climber
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Aug 16, 2017 - 11:21am PT
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If a person shows up at a rally wearing riot gear including weapons, I think that person should be detained. That person is not there to support the rights of free speech. That went down in Sacramento and it also went down in Charlottesville, or so I am told.
I wholeheartedly agree. I detest the anarchist baseball bat wielding types.
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Aug 16, 2017 - 12:13pm PT
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After disbanding his manufacturing group today, Trump tweeted:
"Rather than putting pressure on the businesspeople of the Manufacturing Council & Strategy & Policy Forum, I am ending both. Thank you all!"
What a sweet stand up guy!
That must have been what he meant to say when Ken Frazier left, and Trump tweeted:
"Now that Ken Frazier of Merck Pharma has resigned from President's manufacturing Council, he will have more time to LOWER RIPOFF DRUG PRICES!"
When Trump looks back on that, do you think he sees what he said, or does he just see himself as a fine person who is graciously sparing Frazier from the pressure of his bullying?
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Aug 16, 2017 - 12:17pm PT
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If a person shows up at a rally wearing riot gear including weapons, I think that person should be detained. That person is not there to support the rights of free speech. That went down in Sacramento and it also went down in Charlottesville, or so I am told.
I'm with you on the weapons part.
But since we have gotten to the point where so much violence is allowed I can't blame people for wanting to at least wear a helmet.
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Norton
Social climber
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Aug 16, 2017 - 12:22pm PT
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we all saw the videos of helmeted and armed white nationalists
Sacramento? I don't recall seing armed protesters, anyone help me out?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Aug 16, 2017 - 12:25pm PT
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The CEOs en masse disbanded the groups, not trump.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Aug 16, 2017 - 12:44pm PT
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So what the difference between.... the lefty thugs who wear masks on their faces and the KKK who will get busted if they put on the hoods? guyman
Those were the same lefty thugs that helped win the last war against the Nazis and KKK, the civilized Americans that fight against evil when it becomes a threat on their lives.
The Trump admin (just like Hitler or Kim jung um) is going after these people, that's why they wore masks.
Patriots wouldn't call them thugs, they are fighting against evil right wing brutal sick f*#k real "thugs", chanting "hail trump", "blood and soil", "f*#k you faggots"
Someone has to fight them, only the left will fight against these right wing Nazis, KKK, Communists, Fascists, evil dictators,
why?, because the right wingers will always fall in line with their oppressive leaders and fight for evil.
We can't let them do what they want, it hurts others, they have shown us what they will do if you give them the power they crave.
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WBraun
climber
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Aug 16, 2017 - 12:50pm PT
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You stoopid Americans gave violent nazis the right to demonstrate and then stoopid left wingnuts came and scream at already pissed off Nazi nutcases that had weapons,
What do ya expect.
Yer all idiots and stoopid Americans .....
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Aug 16, 2017 - 12:53pm PT
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No
I saw the video
and heard the commentary
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c wilmot
climber
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Aug 16, 2017 - 01:04pm PT
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We have a police force to deal with social unrest. We dont need armed masked groups with nefarious intentions patrolling our streets to ostensibly protect us.
both fringe sides-right and left- seem eager to cast our nation into unecessary chaos
And both sides have a totalitarian bent
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