Experiences vs Possessions

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Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Topic Author's Original Post - Feb 27, 2017 - 08:35am PT
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/10/buy-experiences/381132

In regards to Experiences vs Possessions- it has been a fine line in the expression of values to our children.

Our family wealth in "Experiences", is in great part, owed to our City open spaces, museums, galleries, State beaches, National parks and the wonderful people employeed at these places. Even with all the regulations that are so often complained about, these venues have been the oyster of our road tripping experiences.

The EPA and any government agency that stands in the way of commerce, or person that draws a government salary are about to receive a broadside that, without hyperbole, may result in the irreparable destruction of our public venues and affordable recreation.

To those that have chosen, or are forced to recreate on a budget, including my son's- I believe that the current state of open spaces and their governance (that is so often maligned) will be looked back upon as the golden age of Road Tripping for the working class.

The aftermath of this destruction will be private concessions, theme parks and blocked access.

Nick Danger

Ice climber
Arvada, CO
Feb 27, 2017 - 08:57am PT
I think the topic stated at the top of this post has much validity for the personal as it does for the societal. Culturally, we live in an acquisitive society, and often much importance is placed on what we acquire. Climbers, as a group, seem to belong to a subset of society that is more drawn to experience than to acquiring things. The old bumper sticker "He who dies with the most toys wins" seems to encapsulate the mentality of acquisition for a group of folks originally biased towards experience. Even for those of us with a predilection towards experience, the daily battle to put the accumulation of stuff into proper perspective can easily be a battle fought daily. It is what Buddhists call "the hungry ghost". For me, determining the outcome of this particular paradox has more meaning at the level of individual choice for the way one choses to live their life than it does at the level of society. In saying this I mean no disrespect for those who pick up the cudgels of public policy and public advocacy in making their choice on this topic. I just think that there are many competing centers of power in the public sphere and it becomes a different subject than the one I bring up here about personal choices.
Respectfully
Nick

PS Thanks for starting this potentially very interesting thread.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Feb 27, 2017 - 09:01am PT
without hyperbole

Sure seems like hyperbole.

In any case, we can't control most of the world around us no matter how much we protest or fight or toil. We can however adapt and teaching our children to always think for themselves goes a long way towards building those adaptive skills. Rich experiences aren't just found in government sanctioned venues.
Nick Danger

Ice climber
Arvada, CO
Feb 27, 2017 - 09:34am PT
Locker,
Just a quick tip o' the hat to ye here. I am always impressed by how much native wisdom you put into so few words in your posts.
Thanks, dude.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 27, 2017 - 10:15am PT
Nice post Nick!

Fear- Prior to Iraq, I remember being called out on the middle East, Nation building scheme by the Neoconservatives as an alarmist.

Anyways, I'm trying to avoid partisanship here. It's about the life span or well being of our Public places as administered by the State.

From an article by Vox about Steve Bannon-
He never called himself a “populist” or an “American nationalist,” as so many think of him today. “I’m a Leninist,” Bannon proudly proclaimed.

Shocked, I asked him what he meant.
“Lenin,” he answered, “wanted to destroy the state, and that’s my goal too. I want to bring everything crashing down, and destroy all of today’s establishment.”


I'd say it's safe to say he's not advocating for more Public venues.

Locker- yes, must have gear.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Feb 27, 2017 - 10:51am PT
Locker is right we must have balance, but a lot of people don't see that and get very materialistic. I see it all the time yuppies have to drive a giant SUV that never goes off road or tows. The potus sure looks this way. With his gold plated residences.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Feb 27, 2017 - 10:56am PT
The aftermath of this destruction will be private concessions, theme parks and blocked access.

To some extent this has already happened on the east coast. We have it pretty good out west. Although 30 bucks to visit a NP is pretty steep.

The Grand Canyon trails were privately owned by the miners who built them. A lot of money was made, not from mining but from taking tourists down the canyon. The Federal government embarked on a mission to restore access to the public. In the course of this they constructed the South Kaibab trail because the Bright Angel trail was privately owned. Tioga Road was privately built and owned, luckily it reverted to the Federal government through abandonment.

I worry less about the crown jewels of this country (Yos, GC and Yellowstone) I am more concerned about the pimping out of the "lesser" real estate.
AP

Trad climber
Calgary
Feb 27, 2017 - 11:41am PT
You need both but experience counts for more than possessions.
Remember the Buddhist Middle Path
rbord

Boulder climber
atlanta
Feb 27, 2017 - 11:41am PT
People are different.

I have definitely had the experience of enjoying an experience more in retrospect than I did at the time.

But maybe other people honestly enjoyed the altitude induced nausea. Or maybe they get a warm fuzzy feeling when they think of their hello kitty toaster oven.

Either way, humans are OK.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 27, 2017 - 11:54am PT
Several years ago a family whale watching trip to San Ignacio Lagoon created a priceless experience that we all reflect on with great joy.

Ironically, with the promise of jobs and development, the lagoon was well on it's way to becoming a salt production site for the Mitsubishi Corporation. Fortunately, environmental groups and fisherman worked to make the bay an ecological preserve. Now private and public enterprise are making a living off of ecotourism and a critical habitat for spawning sea life has been preserved. The salt mining jobs would have been low paying and eventually cut to a minimum through automation- sound familiar?

It seems strange that the US would be going in the opposite direction of Mexico in cases like this.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Feb 27, 2017 - 12:15pm PT
Contractor my family did that same trip a few years ago. Phenomenal.

There is huge salt production there already though. We took boats out of both places farther south that's really undeveloped and up north through the huge salt production area.

Maybe you just meant they protected it from further development. Which was great.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 27, 2017 - 12:36pm PT
Amazing trip Fet! Touching that whale and similar experiences may be the force that landed my older son at Cal Poly, majoring in Environmental Studies...
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 27, 2017 - 01:32pm PT
yeah Tami, close to home was all I could afford when we were young.
10 years ago- Anza-Borrego State Park
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Feb 27, 2017 - 01:35pm PT
I did the trip to the lagoon in the late 80s when they first started going after that market. Was a memorable experience. the whole operation was a bit haphazard, but that was Baja. We drove to Cabo on that trip. Even back then I sensed it was the beginning of the end for the tip. Golf courses were already installed in San Jose. But there is still plenty of exploring to do between Ensenada and Cabo.

Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 27, 2017 - 02:38pm PT
Wow, that's great Tami and so true!

If you're my age, your family gathered around the TV for the latest Jacque Cousteau special narrated by Rod Sterling or weekly, caught Wild Kingdom.

My Dad worked so hard to give my brother and I those outdoor experiences, yet he bitched at us incessantly which made me wonder if he actually enjoyed it.

As a father who takes his sons out on adventures regularly, I understand the bitching and I now know, without question, he was having a blast.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Feb 27, 2017 - 02:45pm PT
Having a collection of possessions can be an experience of sorts.

Like collecting rocks or plants, you don't have to spend a fortune or travel outside of your house, but it can be turned into a fulfilling experience like collecting routes at your favorite crag.

You can never have enough of your collectables, more is always better!

All that matters is what's happening inside your mind, if you can have fun doing it, it's the same as any other thing you can do and get the same mental state out of,
so hence you better find something else to do after you can't climb as much as you want or get injured, or Old.

Extreme cactus and succulent collecting can be somewhat graded like climbing, there are 5.12d succulents!
otisdog

Big Wall climber
Sierra Madre & McGee Creek, Ca.
Feb 27, 2017 - 03:22pm PT
My old man was a hard ass...no ifs, ands, or buts.
But he took us traveling internationally every couple of years over my mom's protestations....
"They'll remember Germany much longer than a new couch" was his reply. He was right, although I still remember one particularly ugly couch.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Feb 27, 2017 - 03:32pm PT
Contractor, congrats to you and your offspring on a great direction and education! I studied Environmental Science at UC Davis.

It pays to have a young kid on those trips. The whales are weirdly attracted to them.

I was looking for my photos from a trip there but couldn't easily find them. So here's a photo of another great experience. Playing with lava!

Flip Flop

climber
Earth Planet, Universe
Feb 27, 2017 - 07:23pm PT
Ask yourself this " Which would I rather lose, my possessions or just the memories of my experiences? Or lose the ability to have new experiences?"

For me possessions are merely the means to have new experiences. If I didn't ski with my son, we would still slide. If I didn't have climbing gear, we would still climb. We would still run and jump and swim. And we would laugh.
Only in the eating does the food meet its purpose.
Chugach

Trad climber
Vermont
Feb 28, 2017 - 05:40pm PT
Oh gosh, you OP'd a great topic and ruined it with your political doomsday hyperbole.

Experiences of course. What the hell could possibly be as cool as my memories. A very wealthy wall street guy bought The Magna Carta which is about the coolest possession you could own but I'd still take an adventure over that.

I'm glad you didnt mention money because I've found it more and more helpful in travel though it contradicts my youthful dirtbaggery.

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