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Yury
Mountain climber
T.O.
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Feb 26, 2017 - 06:48am PT
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Ken M
Yury, you post from the position of a serf, bowing to the wisdom of a central gov't whose pronouncements are not subject to scrutiny. You accept central authority as fundamentally correct and unquestionable. Ken M, please do not project your own thoughts onto me.
Unlike modern liberals I value freedom and am concerned about establishment of a totalitarian state similar to what already been done by lefties in Russia and China.
Trump is a temporary phenomenon.
Corruption of Mainstrea Media is much more dangerous.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Feb 26, 2017 - 06:57am PT
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Corruption of Mainstrea Media is much more dangerous.
Except right now media corruption in mainstream media on a scale 0-100 is around 5 or less whereas, if one were to consider trumpco as a news organization, it would rank them at about 95. There's never been anything comparable in the history of the United States presidency.
#impeachthedespot
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c wilmot
climber
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Feb 26, 2017 - 07:00am PT
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You sound like a separatist healyje...
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nah000
climber
no/w/here
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Feb 26, 2017 - 07:04am PT
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in response to Ken M's post [and written the same time as yury's most recent post]:
considering yury didn't mention the press changing a government's narrative but rather one put out by an "int'l organization" that whole diatribe above is #fakeinterpretation aka #strawman.
that said, i am curious yury if you could give the exact change that was made. 'cause as it is all we have is your word and your blame of liberal media. ie. without the original wording and the actual change that was made it's just one more claim from a relatively anonymous source.
which is one of the big problems we have these days: if you pay attention, a huge percentage of our political news is based on anonymous sources. the "news" has been turned into gossip and conduits for disgruntled government departments and intelligence agency mis/information far far too much of the time.
while the amount of comprehensively "fake news" is, imo, not as large as people are saying, there certainly is a lot of "skewed news" and "anonymously sourced news".
oh well, gotta get those clicks and ducats.
and we keep clicking and buying.
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c wilmot
climber
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Feb 26, 2017 - 07:31am PT
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our media refers to illegals as immigrants- making no note of the difference between illegal immigrants and legal immigrants. they call islamic terrorist groups "rebels" while referring to Ukrainians who still support their democratically elected president "separatists"
A repost. Clear examples of fake news. The media has conditioned so many to believe their spin to the point that you are being fed fake news about... fake news
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Feb 26, 2017 - 08:04am PT
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our media refers to illegals as immigrants- making no note of the difference between illegal immigrants and legal immigrants. they call islamic terrorist groups "rebels" while referring to Ukrainians who still support their democratically elected president "separatists"
A repost. Clear examples of fake news. The media has conditioned so many to believe their spin to the point that you are being fed fake news about... fake news
Your definition of fake news cannot be found in any dictionary.
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Feb 26, 2017 - 08:20am PT
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A retired Navy Seal who was an architect of the raid that killed Osama bin Laden has warned that Donald Trump’s attack on the press as an enemy of the American people “may be the greatest threat to democracy in my lifetime”.
Retired admiral William McRaven, the former commander of the Joint Special Operations Command and later the US Special Operations Command, issued his defense of the media during a Tuesday late-afternoon lecture to journalism students at the University of Texas, where he serves as chancellor.
McRaven, himself a journalism graduate of the school, referred to the press as “the single most important institution in this republic” and said: “This may be the most important time for journalism that I have seen in decades. Probably we need you now more than ever before.”
McRaven did not issue a personal criticism of Trump, nor a broader critique of his administration. But he directly referenced “the president” in objecting to Trump’s stated perspective on the US press.
“On February 17, the president said the news media is the enemy of the American people. The news media is the enemy of the American people,” McRaven said, according to a video of the speech the University of Texas made available to the Guardian.
“This sentiment may be the greatest threat to democracy in my lifetime, this sentiment,” McRaven said to applause.
“I will tell you, as journalism majors, as Americans, you should challenge that sentiment and that statement every opportunity you can. We must challenge this statement and this sentiment that the news media is the enemy of the American people.”
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Feb 26, 2017 - 09:00am PT
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Let me try to understand this:
Our current POTUS proclaimed that dead people, illegal immigrants and multi-state registered voters reduced his Popular Vote win, by millions(and none of those "fraudulent votes" went for him, as an added claim). Turns out that several in his own family and immediate acquaintance are registered in multiple states. But we are expected to believe(and we do, because it is reasonable belief) that they are not the illegal vote-casting "bad ombres" POTUS means.
Wouldn't one say that the POTUS's claims are an example of fake news? Or do we blame the media sources who quoted his words/played video?
That is but ONE example.
Anyone who can not see CLEARLY that POTUS has a credibility problem, is beyond hope with regards to reasonable debate. Sorry - just stating the obvious.
Look - you can believe, if you like, that the NYT is misinforming - that's your prerogative. Just like it is the prerogative to allow people to DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES whether The National Enquirer is factual or fiction. I say, let the Enquirer sit in with the press conferences, and also don't bar any others. "Onion?" Certainly. We, the People, can be left to our own devices, and if we are too dim to figure out what's what - then that is on us.
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c wilmot
climber
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Feb 26, 2017 - 09:05am PT
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You believe the Russian nonsense despite the fact no evidence to support the claims has been provided. What makes trumps claims any different?
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Yury
Mountain climber
T.O.
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Feb 26, 2017 - 09:09am PT
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nah000
that said, i am curious yury if you could give the exact change that was made. Case 1 (distortion of the fact): When central Ukrainian government started latest attack against Eastern Ukrainian separatists, OSCE published a report with the counts of explosions and their geographic locations without mentioning who was responsible:
http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/296961
The Globe and Mail journalist retweeted this news as "So yesterday OSCE monitors recorded 10,330 Russian rocket & artillery explosions ..." thus creating anti-Russian #fakenews.
If you study geographic locations of these explosion with a detailed map of this area, you can conclude that this was shelling by central Ukrainian government.
It was the only time I contacted this newspaper, because I initially assumed that this could have been just an error caused by poor intelligence and hastiness of Doug Saunders.
Case 2 (omission): When report was less ambiguous, it was just ignored:
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Feb 26, 2017 - 09:19am PT
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If you study geographic locations of these explosion with a detailed map of this area, you can conclude that this was shelling by central Ukrainian government.
Oh, ok, if you say so. But we know what dog in this fight you support though.
Why don't you find something in this country to show the bias, something we have an experience with. And apply your 'rigorous' analysis to both left and right..
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Yury
Mountain climber
T.O.
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Feb 26, 2017 - 09:24am PT
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healyje
Except right now media corruption in mainstream media on a scale 0-100 is around 5 or less whereas, if one were to consider trumpco as a news organization, it would rank them at about 95. I am puzzled by attempts to whitewash Mainstream Media.
Let's discuss one more example.
As a preparation for a war against Serbia in 1999:
1) Mainstream Media published a lot of stories about crimes committed by Serbs against Muslims (it was a mix of real facts and #fakenews).
2) Mainstream Media carefully avoided even mentioning of ethnical cleansing of Serbs by Croats in Serbska Krajina and Eastern Slavonia.
By such lopsided information Mainstream Media was able to brainwash Americans and ensure support for a war against Serbia.
Providing lopsided information is as dangerous as direct #fakenews.
I do not believe that an honest person would give a 5% corruption score to MSM that was used to justify an unjust war.
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Yury
Mountain climber
T.O.
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Feb 26, 2017 - 09:32am PT
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monolith
Oh, ok, if you say so. But we know what dog in this fight you support though. monolith, if you do not trust me, just do this research yourself.
You need to come up with a more detailed analysis if you want to dismiss my claim.
Unfortunately I found that it was typical for my liberal friends to use ad hominem attack when exposed to uncomfortable facts and ideas.
Why don't you find something in this country to show the bias, something we have an experience with. And apply your 'rigorous' analysis to both left and right.. You can find such analysis on the Internet.
You may not be aware of it because it was not reported by MSM and your liberal social media friends.
Please use Google.
I shared my story because it was the only time I contacted a newspaper.
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Feb 26, 2017 - 09:36am PT
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Your history tells us you won't give a fair analysis. Somehow I don't think your observations would stand a chance in a forum that had Ukranians familiar with both sides of the conflict.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Feb 26, 2017 - 09:38am PT
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Why don't you find something in this country to show the bias, something we have an experience with. And apply your 'rigorous' analysis to both left and right..
Well, a good example would be the 'yuge' percentage of media coverage of the Dems'
Viet Nam War which parroted the Johnson Administration's BS.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Feb 26, 2017 - 09:38am PT
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Trump has taken on the role of the boy who cried wolf... his worshippers , Kellyanne and Spicer , keep running to rescue him from his latest fabricated media crisis... Most of the press are not falling for Trump's dog and pony show so Trump doubles down with his personal media assault and tries to villanize them just like he did Hillary with the phony email crisis..This proves that there will always be enough gullible citizens willing to jump off the cliff when someone tells them to....It works both ways liberal or conservative ..Remember the weapons of mass destruction fake news and where that led us..?
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Yury
Mountain climber
T.O.
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Feb 26, 2017 - 09:41am PT
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monolith
Your history tells us you won't give a fair analysis. Somehow I don't think your observations would stand a chance in a forum that had Ukranians familiar with both sides of the conflict. Again, you assume too much.
By the way, do you know that Western Ukrainian patriots advocate for more decisive attacks on separatists and blame central Ukrainian government for indecisiveness?
Please learn how to spell the word "Ukrainian".
If you want to learn more about the history of modern Ukraine, please go to Polish and Hebrew versions of the Wikipedia page on Stepan Bandera (who is a role model and a hero for modern Ukrainians) and translate these pages into English.
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Norton
Social climber
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Feb 26, 2017 - 09:50am PT
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A top Republican just called for a special prosecutor to investigate the Trump Administration's communications with Russia.
Explain how that is of no consequence, based on what you know from the national security briefings you have been a part of lately
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Feb 26, 2017 - 10:09am PT
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Good one Yury, now you are going after typos. BTW, I have discussed this situation with some Ukrainian climbers and colleagues, and they present a completely different picture. So we await watching you debate people who are deeply familiar with this situation.
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