Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - May 1, 2017 - 06:15pm PT
|
yer gonna die!
no, looks ok, as the shark fins aren't really supporting the ledge.
Actually, turns out Barry has a idea from one of his other products we might try first for the cup/holder/stash pocket. Seems cool the way you are doing it, though! Also would like to hear more about your bed tensioner system--something different than the ubiquitous A5 tensioner system! Wondering if you could post a video of setup. cheers
|
|
John Mac
Trad climber
Breckenridge, CO
|
|
It just keeps on getting better...
|
|
Moof
Big Wall climber
Orygun
|
|
Duece,
I'll try and get a setup video this weekend, probably no sooner than Sunday. I am scrambling to get ready for a trip in 2 weeks (!) among other life craziness, so no promises. I'll have to figure out that whole uploading to youtube thing from my phone.
I am glad I scratched the itch on the bed tensioner, probably not worth the extra effort/weight but it has been gnawing at me for probably 5+ years. I have always cringed at how much weight is being held by the center plastic buckle(s) on your designs if a couple guys are stomping around at a belay, though you have not had any failures, nor have I heard of failures on BD Cabana's so it is likely unfounded. Reality is that most of the force is held by the short direction of the bed, not the long ways, but still, high tension on plastic buckles, eww.
One old bed I did a few years back used Metolius crash pad buckles that they sold as replacements, so no threading, just hook and cinch (yes, I tried to optimize the hell out of 10 seconds a day on the wall, talk about local sub-optimization). I'll take pics of that shortly, it was another idea that was far better in my head than reality.
There is a lot of friction in my scheme, so you can't just cinch it up from one side, which is why I put buckles on both sides. Using the strand that is one zig-zag in to yard against makes it cinch up evenly. It is actually easy to get too much tension, which makes the bed taco like crazy (first world problem?). I don't like how the buckles in the corner pucker up the ballistics in funny ways, as they are being pulled inwards with nothing to counter-act, so I plan on doing some rework to tweak things a little bit.
If I did it again I would not use the load spreading pie-wedges, but just zig-zagged 3/4" webbing to the same effect with less labor/weight, and less interference with my center fin.
Overall I do like having the tensioner on one end only. Of course, the geometry only works out in my favor because of the corner blocks which makes for nice 25.5" end pieces when broken in half, while your design needs the end poles to be freed up to fold up so nicely since end pole only have to be ~30" in total. If I ordered a pipe bender my wife would probably kick me out of the house, so corner blocks it is for me.
|
|
deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - May 3, 2017 - 02:41pm PT
|
Moof, really like the way you are trying new things and evolving your design--super cool. Fun stuff!
We are making a lot of significant improvements to the D4 this month, some really innovative aspects of the fly are upcoming; once the dust settles, I will share them as well.
|
|
deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - May 23, 2017 - 03:15pm PT
|
Any comments/ideas/initial impressions?
|
|
Moof
Big Wall climber
Orygun
|
|
|
May 23, 2017 - 05:23pm PT
|
One of your Facebook pictures shows some sort of funky connector on the end of one of the end poles. What sort of voodoo is going on there? I am intrigued. Does it slide and lock to make getting the last pole into place more easy?
Regarding the fly, looks very nice. I have a little bit of a hard time getting excited however, as I've only had to deploy a ledge fly 3 nights on a about a dozen walls (and one of those was just for bivying at the top where I would have been OK in just a bivy sack). If my needs were more expedition oriented I'd be all over it, but for most Yosemite applications I want a fly for insurance with the minimum of frills beyond not dying in a storm, so the extra zipper, while way cool, feels a little counter to the notion of simplicity and lightweight design you originally set forth for this project.
I am in the minority, however. BD even stopped selling their "Simple" fly, and only sells their "Expedition" one with the two doors and fully enclosed design. I am guessing it was due to low sales of the no-frills version I think most buyers default to clicking every option box and don't equate the extra crap with extra weight/volume.
Jim, the bend is the by-product of the 4 point suspension. If the suspension triangles were further out, and the camera level with the ground it would indeed bend downward, bring them close in and the canteleivered ends would further make the center bow upwards.
|
|
deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - May 23, 2017 - 05:32pm PT
|
Moof, for my original D4 frame design, I included a little plastic tube "helper" so the end tubes stay in place during assembly even when not fully inserted. For the prototypes, this was simply a short section of vinyl tubing, which I was concerned about in cold weather, but Marek Regonowicz used it up in Baffin in -60F temps, and loved the way it helped assembly. He found full deployment even with our first generation fly less than 10 minutes, solo, sometimes in tricky situations.
I am not sure I need the helpers anymore with my latest frame system, but it helps with the "traditional" system with dangling end poles.
Regarding the camber of the ledge, there is a little flex when loaded, that is what you are seeing. Probably the camera makes it look more--the flex is very minimal with the new D4 hybrid diameter frame design.
|
|
Moof
Big Wall climber
Orygun
|
|
|
May 23, 2017 - 05:45pm PT
|
Got it, I missed the switch to non-dangling poles. I watch the videos with the sound off, so I missed that glaring detail when I watched the video.
|
|
deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 3, 2017 - 02:31pm PT
|
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
Portaledge became obsolete today.
Honnold free soloed elcap in 4 hours earlier today.
Everyone must now do it that way or no way ...... :-)
|
|
deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 8, 2017 - 04:58pm PT
|
Not obsolete for this badass! Marek spent 30 nights in the D4 Portaledge soloing two new Grade VII's in Baffin this year.
|
|
Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
|
|
Portaledge became obsolete today.
Honnold free soloed elcap in 4 hours earlier today.
Everyone must now do it that way or no way ...... :-) [Click to View YouTube Video]
:-)
Kidding aside, great design and development work.
|
|
'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
|
|
|
Jul 26, 2017 - 08:51am PT
|
Resurrected from the dead:
SIX STRAPS!!
YAY!!
While the four-strap suspension seemed good "in theory", I was not a fan. It is prone to taco-ing, however if you follow John's instructional video to the letter, you will be ok.
Mostly I did not like it as a soloist, because with no person to counterweight the other end, I could not lean my back against a non-existent corner strap, nor against the pig, as a backrest. Thinking of El Cap, I like to sit with my back in the SW corner to face the morning sunlight. Impossible with four straps.
Also no good for me [being alone] with the four straps - when you go to load your pig in the morning, you want to stand on the end of the ledge to reach inside, right? Well, you can't do that, because with no person to counterweight it, it immediately tips!!
I found it harder to level, and to keep level. If you moved a bit, it would shift more than a six-strap ledge.
That being said, the other design innovations are brilliant! I really LOVE the round corners for flagging the ledge during hauling, because unlike a block corner, the round corner will slide round obstructions on the wall amazingly well. And since on a big nailup we haul two loads, with the ledge flagged on the second load, the ledge slides up past the first docked pig and catch lines much easer.
The way it folds in the bag is super-easy, and it is FABULOUS that you can pre-attach the fly for quick deploy. I used to use an old North Face-A5 fly with a floor, and that really IS Big Wall Theory, at least for above freezing walls. The bottom of the ledge fly would collect water, a giant cold lake heat sink. Yes, there are grommets, and no, they don't drain well.
Deucey - please provide links below where you want me to copy and paste this stuff for you. Like McTopo, etc, then message me and I'll update as you like.
Cheers, eh?
PtP Pete
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!