Dam Trouble

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Messages 581 - 597 of total 597 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 13, 2018 - 08:26am PT
Y’all are kinda hard on the damn lot.
$1 Billion is chump change for Jerry’s Kids RR To Nowhere, nawmean?
clifff

Mountain climber
golden, rollin hills of California
Dec 13, 2018 - 09:38am PT
If the Great Flood of 1862 happened again most of the dams would probably fail as all of the emergency spillways are based on the same wishfull analysis as Oroville.

California Megaflood: Lessons from a Forgotten Catastrophe

A 43-day storm that began in December 1861 put central and southern California underwater for up to six months, and it could happen again

In 1861, farmers and ranchers were praying for rain after two exceptionally dry decades. In December their prayers were answered with a vengeance, as a series of monstrous Pacific storms slammed—one after another—into the West coast of North America, from Mexico to Canada. The storms produced the most violent flooding residents had ever seen, before or since.

Sixty-six inches of rain fell in Los Angeles that year, more than four times the normal annual amount, causing rivers to surge over their banks, spreading muddy water for miles across the arid landscape. Large brown lakes formed on the normally dry plains between Los Angeles and the Pacific Ocean, even covering vast areas of the Mojave Desert. In and around Anaheim, , flooding of the Santa Ana River created an inland sea four feet deep, stretching up to four miles from the river and lasting four weeks.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/atmospheric-rivers-california-megaflood-lessons-from-forgotten-catastrophe/

https://www.google.com/search?q=1862+flood+california&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1

Dingus Milktoast

Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
Feb 10, 2019 - 10:43pm PT
What's 2 billion dollars buy you these days, anyway?








DMT
Mike Honcho

Trad climber
Glenwood Springs, CO
Feb 11, 2019 - 08:33am PT
If the Great Flood of 1862 happened again most of the dams would probably fail as all of the emergency spillways are based on the same wishfull analysis as Oroville.

Eh', maybe but not due to sh#t construction. My Wife is a leading Dam Safety Engineer for the State of Colorado here in Glenwood Springs, CO. Pretty sure they pay her a f*#kton and she runs a really tight ship.

We supply Lake Mead with a ridiculous amount of water, Parts of California and all of Las Vegas would go full Road Warrior in a month without it. Colorado seems to be on it, but then I'm a moron married to a Hydrologist/Dam expert..
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Feb 11, 2019 - 09:02am PT
$2 Billion? And how many Golden Gate Bridges would that be?
In 2016 dollars would you believe FOUR?
Chaz

Trad climber
Straight Outta Crafton
Feb 11, 2019 - 10:12am PT
We'll see how long it lasts. The same people who let the last one go to sh#t are maintaining this one - and no one lost their job.
Dingus Milktoast

Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
Feb 11, 2019 - 10:22am PT
^^^ Yes, they effectively played the "blame the dead dudes" and "it wasn't my job, man!" cards.

DMT
Dingus Milktoast

Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
Feb 11, 2019 - 10:27am PT
$2 Billion? And how many Golden Gate Bridges would that be?
In 2016 dollars would you believe FOUR?

Silly man, you don't understand the Bay Area. And despite all your years here you clearly don't understand California either.

The Oakland portion of the Bay Bridge cost 6+ Billion to build, and its earthquake integrity is actually in some level of ligit doubt.

Given the prominence and position of the golden gate and the international symbolism of the bridge itself, there is NO WAY!!! No frickin way a replacement could be acceptable for any less than 3-4x the price of the ugly-assed utilitarian, working-person's Bay Bridge.

Get with the program, man!

DMT
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Feb 11, 2019 - 11:49am PT
Guilty as charged - DWSPITSC;
Driving While Snowflake Pie In The Sky Crankloon 🙀
MGuzzy

Trad climber
Orangevale
Feb 11, 2019 - 12:21pm PT
DMT sez: What's 2 billion dollars buy you these days, anyway?

The world's biggest skateboard ramp and inner tube slide... when does the park open?!
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Feb 11, 2019 - 12:22pm PT
If the Great Flood of 1862 happened again most of the dams would probably fail as all of the emergency spillways are based on the same wishfull analysis as Oroville.

The emergency spillways were designed to be able to pass flows greater than the 1862 event.

Now just because the design specifies a spillway large enough to handle that flow, doesn't guarantee you that the spillway is built strong enough to physically handle it. As the current example shows.
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Feb 11, 2019 - 12:26pm PT
Eh', maybe but not due to sh#t construction. My Wife is a leading Dam Safety Engineer for the State of Colorado here in Glenwood Springs, CO. Pretty sure they pay her a f*#kton and she runs a really tight ship.

We supply Lake Mead with a ridiculous amount of water, Parts of California and all of Las Vegas would go full Road Warrior in a month without it. Colorado seems to be on it, but then I'm a moron married to a Hydrologist/Dam expert..

Maybe Co is better than AZ, but I wouldn't automatically assume that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risks_to_the_Glen_Canyon_Dam

Glen_Canyon_Dam


Making use of part of the old diversion tunnels that were used when the dam was built, the spillways were thus more economical to construct, but have less capacity and must have at least 30 percent clearance between the water level and the tunnel ceiling.[
...
At the onset of the flood in 1983, several false weather predictions made the Bureau of Reclamation late in opening the spillways.[citation needed] At first, as inflows exceeded normal levels, the penstocks were opened to full release, and as inflow continued to rise, the river outlet works were also opened, discharging more water into the river below. The reservoir, however, continued to rise, and Reclamation finally decided to raise the floodgates. Other than test runs, this was the first time that the spillways had ever been put into operation for practical reasons, this time running at 20,000 cubic feet (570 m3) per second per tunnel. In several days, noticeable vibrations began to make themselves felt in the dam wall and surrounding rock. A close examination of water exiting the spillways revealed noticeable debris, including sandstone, which signaled severe erosion taking place. Reclamation responded by reducing releases by half, however, the rumblings continued, and it was not long before the spillways were shut down completely for examination.[14] The rumblings were so notable that a worker in the employee dining room, located near the power plant, was reported to say that it "sounded like the barrages that he had experienced in Vietnam".[16]

Subsequently, inspection crews were lowered down the spillway tunnels in a small cart to assess damage. What they found was that at tunnel bends, the force of the water, by means of cavitation, had damaged and eroded the lining of the tunnel, which was 3-foot (0.91 m)-thick concrete. At some places the erosion had completely worn away the lining, exposing the soft sandstone underneath; this was the source of much of the debris. The tunnels could not be closed for long, however: the National Weather Service was reporting more rainstorms in the Colorado River Basin,
...
Reclamation was worried that the water would eventually erode around the diversion plug altogether, creating a connection to the reservoir floor. This uncontrolled spillage would cause the reservoir to drain.

LOL. Grand Teton didn't have a dam failure in 1976. It merely had a connection to the reservoir that caused the reservoir to drain.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Feb 11, 2019 - 12:49pm PT
The 1983 rains created record setting flows through the Grand Canyon. Ken Grua was a boatman on a dory that used the high flows to set the record for the fastest trip through the canyon, less than 37 hours. Ken was also the first person to walk the length of the canyon at the river, a somewhat contrived trip as the entire river can not be walked at river level. That trip was one of the longest through the canyon at 5 weeks.
G_Gnome

Trad climber
Cali
Feb 11, 2019 - 02:16pm PT
That was documented in his book The Emerald Mile and was a great read.
Chris McNamara

SuperTopo staff member
Feb 11, 2019 - 03:15pm PT
Emerald Mile... one of my fav books. Highly recommended...
Minerals

Social climber
The Deli
Feb 19, 2019 - 08:10am PT

https://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-ln-mega-storm-dam-failure-20190218-story.html
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Feb 19, 2019 - 01:05pm PT
Yeah CMac and JB! Kenton Grua, all-time, dude. He played those cards right for sure! To get that solo trek and that lucid day-mare of the speed run in together in a single lifetime, and how poignant and fitting for that f*#king aortic tear/mtb trauma to snuff him out like a mite. Can't make this stuff up.

BTW Kevin Fedarko wrote up Emerald Mile, after Kenton had passed away. Also, didn't that Colin FLetcher guy make some kind of a near-complete passage of the canyon on foot well before Kenton's trek? FWIW even near-complete is a big deal - they say it takes four miles of tributary foot travel to match one mile of river parallel foot travel!

I knew a guy who did a solo kayak run of the complete GC back in the day. He'd been guiding for a season or so and he went through and buried cans of tuna (and one other staple, which I don't recall) every so many miles. No permit. No swims. Super B-A!
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