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EdBannister
Mountain climber
13,000 feet
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Jan 22, 2017 - 08:41am PT
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show me one successful communist government over time that lifted people to the lifestyle of the USA.
just one. and how many times has it been tried?
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Jan 22, 2017 - 08:59am PT
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 22, 2017 - 09:08am PT
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Proves you're no better than Trump.
Just stoopid kneejerk junior high photoshopped copy and paste
Zero intelligence, redneck reactions, you're just plain stupid angry old white guys just like Trump you hate ....
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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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Jan 22, 2017 - 09:11am PT
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Putin's Puppet lies 24/7 from the safety of his bunker.
Ignore the lies. Resist.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Jan 22, 2017 - 09:40am PT
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You're right Werner. You've proven over and over here how mature and enlightened you are.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Jan 22, 2017 - 10:08am PT
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May his golf balls boomerang and hit his sorry ass on the long exit out the door.
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kief
Trad climber
east side
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Jan 22, 2017 - 11:47am PT
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Then how did the Soviets outproduce the Nazis in WWII?
I don't know the margin by which the Nazis were outproduced, so I'm not trying to refute this. But large-scale military technical assistance from the Allies—especially the USA—is thought to have amounted to as much as 7 percent of the total production capacity of the USSR. According to one historian, for example, the Allies supplied 1900 locomotives to the Soviets during the first period of Lend Lease, while only 446 locomotives were produced in the country itself during the same period. The figure for railway carriages was 11,000 from the Allies compared to 1000 produced domestically. The inflation-adjusted value in 2003 dollars of total Allied assistance was $130 billion, and it included 15% of the aircraft used by the Soviet air forces and more than 400,000 vehicles, mainly trucks.
At the very least, capitalist economies played a big role in the Soviet achievement.
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nah000
climber
no/w/here
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Jan 22, 2017 - 11:55am PT
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a few more facts that make up a part of the obombem legacy:
563: number of drone strikes under obama in non-war zone areas [so not including afghanistan, libya, syria and iraq] this is 10X the number under bush [from thebureauinvestigates.com]
0.75-1.5: average number of civilian deaths per drone strike and again this does not include active war zones [from thebureauinvestigates.com]
2: number of american citizens directed to be killed by drone strike by obama without trial or other significant oversight [from cnn.com]
2301-3385: likely number of civilian deaths in syria and iraq due to coalition bombing during the last a little under a year and a half [from airwars.org]
26171: number of bombs dropped by the u.s. during only 2016 [from theguardian.com]
8: number of prosecutions under the espionage act that were pursued under obama. this was more than all other administrations combined and included subpoenaing news organizations as they cracked down on whistle blowers in an unprecedented fashion [from longislandpress.com]
$115 billion: arms sales offered by the obama administration to saudi arabia [from theguardian.com]
executive order 12333: an obama administration parting gift to the trump administration that allows the raw stream of data being collected by the nsa to be shared with the fbi, the dea and the dhs. thus continuing the obama directed trend of turning the interwebs into a giant surveillance mechanism not only targeting "terrorists" but domestic crimes as well. [from eff.org]
don't worry, i get a lot of the positives that he pursued/represented... but this is a thread "God blessing" someone who has a legacy that is a "bit" more complicated, at least on an international stage, than seems to be generally acknowledged...
and contained within that legacy are a number of chickens that will almost certainly come home to roost in the near future...
obama always defended some of these grey area dealings [surveillance, drone strikes, etc] by saying that it was okay: we can trust the people wielding these powers...
while that may or may not have been true under obama, i suspect we are going to get a strong stress test of that sales pitch during the next four years...
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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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Jan 22, 2017 - 12:08pm PT
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Sumner, if you join your buddy's foursome I'd count his strokes. Dude lies like a rug.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Jan 22, 2017 - 01:30pm PT
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I believe President Obama was the best president he could be; better, really. If the Democrats DARE to try the obstructionist tactics that Obama faced nearly every move of his presidency; well, they won't, of course. Because, for one thing, as Michelle Obama said "When they go low, we go high."
The Obama's went high every step of the way, when it came to standing strong in the face of adversity. Every time he ever mentioned or referred to his wife or children, it was with admiration, pride, kindness, and love. That was a model for humanity that went well beyond the job of Commander in Chief.
The row he had to hoe was pitted with rocks and weeds, and did he blame the previous administration? I don't know that he did. Instead, he rolled up his sleeves and did the best he could, with the circumstances with which he was faced.
I don't put much on my "Bucket List." I kind of like the way life presents me with some pretty cool scenarios. But there is one thing I would like to do, and that is to have the chance to meet - even for just a few seconds - President Obama, and Michelle Obama, so that I could personally tell them "thanks."
And you know what? I can definitely see Obama climbing. I am sure he would have the greatest sense of humor about whatever he encountered, whether it was getting sketched over exposure, or getting beta that had to include "the OTHER right foot."
God bless you, President Obama, and also you, Michelle Obama.
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Larry Nelson
Social climber
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Jan 22, 2017 - 01:30pm PT
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Norton posted
now, per our Constitution all government spending must be voted on to become law by the House, therefore since 2010 it is the Republican House that has voted on and approved into law virtually all of that 10 trillion, understand now?
That's an excellent point.
That logic also blows up the meme that Reagan ran up the debt in the 80's, when he 'evidently' had absolutely nothing to do with it ;-)
edit: The logic also gives credit to republicans on Bill Clinton's fiscal successes in the 90's.
edit2: The logic also makes democrats look bad on W Bush's deficits.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_divisions_of_United_States_Congresses
I was very proud of this country when we elected Obama. He is a pragmatic ideologue(is that an oxymoron?) and a good family man.
I disagreed on many of his policies, mostly foreign, but also ACA.
Hoping for a good replacement for ACA, we'll see.
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Norton
Social climber
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Jan 22, 2017 - 06:51pm PT
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Keep killing them, Mr President!
Obama last strike kills over 100 al Qaeda in Syria
(CNN)In President Barack Obama's last major military attack against al Qaeda, more than 100 members of the group were killed in a US airstrike in western Syria on Thursday, according to a defense official.
The strike -- which the Pentagon confirmed Friday afternoon in a statement -- hit a training camp west of Aleppo, near the Turkish border. A US B-52 bomber, along with armed drones, dropped 14 munitions on the camp, the official said. The site of the camp was well known to US intelligence.
The defense official said militants there at the time of the strike were part of the so-called "core al Qaeda" dating back to operatives who rose to power in the organization in Pakistan. Core members moved into this area last year.
The strike, which occurred in the early evening hours of Thursday, come just hours after another major US airstrike against ISIS in Libya that killed more than 80 militants.
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nah000
climber
no/w/here
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Jan 22, 2017 - 08:22pm PT
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^^^^
rah rah kue basah...
if only life were as simple as cnn reports.
that attack also seems to have killed what we were told within the last year were "moderate rebels" who were being supplied with TOW missiles by the cia...
now don't get me wrong, i know little about "pj media" except that they are a conservative news blogging type organization. the point is that the people they are quoting do make it look likely that it is not as simple, as per usual, as we are being told by corporate news sources...
and as for that lack of simplicity, when it comes to the middle east, it usually comes back to our having to fight a group we just finished arming. in this case apparently sooner rather than later...
in the later category: i give those tens and tens of billions of arms being sold to saudi arabia at max 25 yrs, before unrest there puts some of it in the hands of those who will then use it against us...
the nobel peace prize winner is obviously gambling otherwise.
given his track record in the middle east over the last eight years... especially syria...
my confidence is not inspired.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Jan 22, 2017 - 09:00pm PT
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Larry Nelson...Can you share with the supertopo members how Trump is going to improve the ACA...?
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Larry Nelson
Social climber
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Jan 23, 2017 - 07:40am PT
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Hey RJ
On ACA replacement: I have no idea. I think my comment said "We'll see".
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jan 23, 2017 - 07:23pm PT
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show me one successful communist government over time that lifted people to the lifestyle of the USA.
Not that they were particularly "communist" but the Bolsheviks took a feudal society and in 20 years brought them into the industrial age. To a point where they could go toe to toe with the Germans and then some.
IIRC, the Soviets produced 35,000 T-34 tanks and 30,000 T-34-85s. The Germans produced 25,000 Panther tanks of all types. They only produced 5,000 Panther tanks.
Yes, I know Stalin was an as#@&%e. But it's worth noting that most of the cities that Forbe's Magazine called the best cities in the world to live in were Euro social democracies. None from the US.
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EdBannister
Mountain climber
13,000 feet
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Jan 23, 2017 - 07:47pm PT
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I was never aware of tank production as a measure of GDP, or an index for standard of living.
that said...
Yeah, the main German Tank factory was underground in Essen, the guy in charge shut it down at one point because the tanks weren't good enough! he was concerned about QC, meanwhile, they were fighting a two front war.. and about 200 tanks intended for the Russian Front were diverted to help in Italy...
and, the real reason for Russia's survival, hundreds of German tanks got stuck in deep mud that then froze them hard in place for the winter.
meanwhile, Germany, under Hitler, does not qualify as an example of free market capitalism...
so i guess we just agree to disagree.
take care Gary.
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Wasn't one of the Americans murdered by terrorists in Benghazi a kite surfer? Or perhaps another kind of surfer?
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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I miss reason and compassion.
Shoot, I just miss someone in the White House knowing civics. "Hey, that "so called" judge can't do that!"
There is so much bat sh#t crazy piled up high already it seems like Obama hasn't been around for a while now.
Yeah, he wasn't perfect, but I do miss him.
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