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cat t.
climber
california
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Jan 12, 2017 - 11:24am PT
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it seems as though a lot of name-brand (I mean that term literally) climbers get paid to advertise.
In broad strokes, I think yes?
I think the current style of media consumption has truly made it harder to distinguish which things are paid advertising and which are genuine. The soul hasn't gone out of climbing (or fashion, or cooking, or painting, or whatever else you follow on social media), but marketing money has grown sneakier.
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seano
Mountain climber
none
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Jan 12, 2017 - 11:28am PT
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The spirit and heart of climbing can only be truly felt through instinct and experience. Well put, Warbler. While I've no doubt been lucky, I believe "instinct and experience" are a big part of the reason I've survived "climbing" so far. Or maybe it's "prudence and patience." To the small extent that I've done things for publicity, I've done them against my better judgement.
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BruceHildenbrand
Social climber
Mountain View/Boulder
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 12, 2017 - 11:28am PT
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I had a discussion with Dougald McDonald about advertising in the climbing world last year. As a former editor of several publications, it was Dougald's observation that a lot of climbng-related companies are spending their advertising dollars on producing videos, etc. which are then put on the Internet rather than traditional ads in publications. Social media is probably a good way to get the message out to millenials if that is your target market.
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
sawatch choss
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Jan 12, 2017 - 11:32am PT
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Well no, the soul is still there, and climbing is strong enough to withstand the serial assaults on its soul that rgold listed. But it as media gets cleverer at insinuating itself into our minds, it gets harder and harder to for one to separate the images from the internal stoke. Given this, I think we'd all do well to embark on periodic cleanses from all the spray, i.e., go cold turkey on the interwebz and just spend time outside groovin' out.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Jan 12, 2017 - 11:34am PT
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But I think the shortest answer to the parking lot query... Yes. That would have been a normal, polite response to the question.
But that's not what happened here and that's why I thought the energy to go spew on the internet about the encounter therefore had nothing to do with soloing and Instagram and everything to do with her own insecurity.
"Locals" and their parking lot snark = there is no way I'm going to foster someone coming in and reducing my entire life's work to their 10 seconds on Instagram.
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cat t.
climber
california
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Jan 12, 2017 - 11:35am PT
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But it as media gets cleverer at insinuating itself into our minds, it gets harder and harder to for one to separate the images from the internal stoke. Given this, I think we'd all do well to embark on periodic cleanses from all the spray, i.e., go cold turkey on the interwebz and just spend time outside groovin' out.
Totally agree.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jan 12, 2017 - 11:41am PT
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Reading this thread feels like visiting the nursing home where "real" men know how to navigate without those newfangled wheelchairs.
I thought the article was excellent, and what it is talking about is a major change in how new climbers entering the sport think and get information...and will commit to serious attempts without traditional preparation.
No, they are not figuring out force-factors on slide rules (like we all do). No, they are not pulling out compasses to check direction(like we all do).
I have found the same thing happening, with far less potential consequences, in the backpacking world. My old climbing partner who runs Vermillion resort, which caters to backpackers, told me this summer that he was seeing a wholesale phenomenon of drastically unprepared hikers, that he'd never seen the like of. So this seems to transcend climbing.
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Banks
Trad climber
Santa Monica, CA
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Jan 12, 2017 - 11:51am PT
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While you guys were busy trying to dissect what Katie meant, I believe she posted in the thread. Why not just ask her?
Be careful who your idols are as things aren't always what they seem.
Be honest with yourself about your ability and intentions.
Take responsibility and educate yourself.
Be good interpreters of the story of climbing
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Jan 12, 2017 - 11:57am PT
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Warbs
But I never had a mentor or shaped my perspective of the spirit of climbing through a veteran's experience. I discovered it on my own, as it should be.
Well I don't know about "as it should be" but whatevs.
The world, and climbing are much different now, obviously.
And I think Georgie's point about mentor ship is valid, especially with many climbers getting into climbing without any foundation in nature.
Mentorships will only help with personal safety and hopefully our impact on the environment too.
I knew you were semi-trolling. All good.
My inspiration came much like yours- I loved rock and lysergic adventure scrambling. Soon enough I saw photos of Croft, or Moffatt.
We were all Barneys once- sh¡t, I still am.
I got vibed by a local at the Happies for asking a simple question lol.
(I think he was put off that I didn't recognize him from his social lol)
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Jan 12, 2017 - 12:37pm PT
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Be careful who your idols are as things aren't always what they seem.
Be honest with yourself about your ability and intentions.
Take responsibility and educate yourself.
Be good interpreters of the story of climbing
I think what Katie says here is the real meat. Well said.
She (you:-) ) have always impressed me as being pretty pure, and with good intentions and impressive talent.
Perhaps the Meadows Store incident brought about Katie's looking into her own role in the depiction of climbing on social media. As a high(er) profile climber and industry player, with an active (and beautiful) IG account herself, its a good thing to portray or cultivate her online presence in a way that will be beneficial to climbers and climbing.
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cat t.
climber
california
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Jan 12, 2017 - 01:06pm PT
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And this is where the story gets weird, because right as I hung up the phone, I started thinking ahead to the future, and the inevitable article I’d write, Instagrams I’d post, and Twitters I’d tweet, glorifying our weekend excursion, which hadn’t even taken place yet.
Ha! I liked his post. No real solution, of course, but honest observations.
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Oplopanax
Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
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Jan 12, 2017 - 01:06pm PT
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Somewhere along the way "pics or it didn't happen" turned into only the pics happening.
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
sawatch choss
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Jan 12, 2017 - 01:31pm PT
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Thanks jefe. AB kinda nails it there.
It's hard to be a transparent eyeball when you're looking through a screen.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Jan 12, 2017 - 02:46pm PT
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Pretty soon the conversation will drift to placing the extra bolt on Superpin.
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Oplopanax
Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
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Jan 12, 2017 - 03:13pm PT
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"What does 'dry and under a lot of tension' mean"?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jan 12, 2017 - 03:29pm PT
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Such an amazing tool, but such a distraction.
I did an article in Climbing back in the '70s called "The Evolution Of Ego In Eden" which was about our coming up on our own in the hollows of SoIll finding our own way in climbing. We were a small cadre, had the place to ourselves and everything we touched was an FA. Then we made our first trip to Eldo and were stunned - I mean stunned - at the social context, hierarchy, status, hero worship, etc. that we found there. It caused us to wonder what it would have been like to have learned to climb in such an established area and so thankful we came up in isolation.
After a few Eldo trips and one to the Gunks where we found a similar social context / fabric, I intended to write another article called "The Socialization Of Ego In Eden", but fortunately ended up thinking better of it. And after the advent of battery-powered drills and the rise of sport climbing and the splitting of climbing's social order I was tempted to write another article called "The Mechanization Of Ego In Eden".
If I had done the series, I would likely been on to one about the climbing world and its society going on-line and the impact of that on individuals entering the sport and I think Katie does a decent job of describing some of the impacts. A key point for me is that today climbing happens within the context of an immediate and almost inescapable social fabric that places a lot of emphasis and currency on the 'branding' of each individual in almost real-time. The pressure and temptation to compare oneself with not only media-level climbing personalities, but with one's local and regional peers is almost unavoidable today and in ways where there are real and immediate telegraphing of where you are at or stand relative to everyone else.
Also, in the past thirty years with people coming up through gyms and sport climbing, climbing itself has become far more of a group social activity than it was in past bringing a lot more peer psychology to play even off-line out at the crag (not that anyone is really off-line at most crags these days). Add to that climbing's near-complete integration into everyday commercial advertising and imagery and I don't think Katie is wrong or off-base in pointing out that one's personal identity as a climber can be quite different today and that identity can be hard to separate from those around you or those presented in the media. And because of that 'blurring' of self-identity with group-identity I think she's right in saying people will take on things they probably aren't ready for because it appears to be a kind of 'norm' in either their immediate social fabric or in some larger online or commercial context - i.e. with something like soloing, a person might not just be weighing their individual readiness, but also is factoring in the readiness of the peer and online groups they feel they share identity with. Katie's just saying when it comes to leaving the ground you should leave all that group identity, status, etc. behind and just operate purely as an individual and get real about what you are capable of and ready for which I agree can be easier said than done in today's world.
I know it's hard for lot of us older folks to get our head around how anyone could stand at the base of a rock and not be assessing our chances solely on our own capabilities, experience and readiness, but Katie's pointing out just how pervasive the influence of others are today and how it can overrule what we'd consider just plain common sense.
Crazy, but it's a different world out there and it would be hard to have the isolated kind of coming up that we were lucky enough to have had back down in the hollers.
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steve s
Trad climber
eldo
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Jan 12, 2017 - 04:23pm PT
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Jgill, What would Pete Cleveland think of this conversation? Knowing Pete he would suggest more climbing less talking.... and another glass of wine please. Cheers
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Jan 12, 2017 - 04:28pm PT
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Blogs and instagrams....great way to get more bang then the buck diserves. Telling it your way and having a vast majority of the public take it verbatim is the stuff that wet dreams for death row inmates are made of.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jan 12, 2017 - 04:49pm PT
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There's a Darwinian aspect to combining climbing and social media that's just inescapable for some folks.
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