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| Messages 1 - 11 of total 11 in this topic |
c wilmot
climber
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Dec 10, 2016 - 03:19am PT
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The white bunnys are rated -60 and are for extreme dry cold. Just got a pair of the black Mickey boots mysel (rated -20 w a harder oil/gas resistant rubber.) They are nice, but heavy and the traction is poor. A great boot for cheap but certainly not the best choice imo.
Edit: another factor is these are not manufactured any more to my knowledge. Several companies made them and its hard to find a reliable source of decent boots that are actually bata brand. . The pair I just bought were made in 1985. You would pretty much be forced to use eBay to find bata brand ones and there is no garuntee of quality. For instance I read of people buying these only to find out the insulation had been compromised due to misuse of the pressure valve.
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Srbphoto
climber
Kennewick wa
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Dec 10, 2016 - 07:52am PT
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I used to dread when the "review" issues of magazines would come out. I would have to spend the next couple of weeks explaining the inaccuracies to customers.
The only thing that I found worse than magazine/website reviews are customer reviews. Sometimes they make me doubt our chance of survival on this planet.
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couchmaster
climber
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Dec 10, 2016 - 09:07am PT
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Thanks for bringing this up Ed. The gearlabs do a lot of great work. Love their cooler reviews as an example. Yet Outdoorgearlabs seems to have a huge bias towards Black Diamond gear. Prime example: read the Gearlab Totem cam review and then the climber reviews below for comparison. To your list I'll also add the outdoorlabs review that essentially dissed on 18650 batteries and Zebralight Headlamps in particular was shockingly incorrect.
Fish Products and Misty Mountain, which clearly have best of class product offerings usually get ignored.
Re: EdBannister first post, quoted: "As per what seems like normal, the current posting of winter boot ratings does not include what many consider to be the best option. Bata makes probably the best version of the "Bunny Boot" a VBL -30, boot, that can be had for 55 dollars.. not on the list... too much value for the consumer?
Duane Ralleigh used to be the gear reviewer for Climbing Magazine, never read even one review that was accurate, what stories do you have of gear reviews that were just plain wrong? "
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Dec 10, 2016 - 09:59am PT
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A product with a great name and perceived industry leadership position is unlikely to donate products to every little weenie testing company with a few dudes doing it as a scam to support their outdoor lifestyle. Then if the companies don't donate the products, it won't be included in the review.
I used to be a product manager for a high-tech equipment vendor. We always got early views of the testing results and we could block our products from being included in the published results if we didn't like it. If we liked it, there was some fee to pay to be included in the published results. How do you think that affects the objectivity of the testers? They are advertised and commonly perceived as independent objective testing vendors. You always have to take reported results with a grain of salt, read multiple reviews, and decide what these people have to gain or lose if they present warts and all.
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DonC
climber
CA
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Dec 10, 2016 - 10:15am PT
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product reviews typically only include products from the big name retailers. I know most hard core hikers use packs, bags, and tents from cottage industry suppliers. Names few would recognize. Extremely light and durable gear for 3000 mile hikes. But little of this gear ever makes gear reviews not because they are not the best, but because they are not made by the big guys that pay for advertising.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Dec 10, 2016 - 10:48am PT
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It was common knowledge among shop employees BITD that the gear reviews were based on swag. If you donated the product you could get included in the review. No free product, no review.
From there we suspected the company 'reps' that were naturally good at making friends and selling a good story got good language. Not completely kiss ass reviews, but the emphasis subtly changed the language to one of determining the scope of the product and defining its limits versus saying how it left out a basic feature for normal use.
Consumer Reports on the other hand emphasizes the criteria and objective measures up front, as a counter example to how to review products.
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Ezra Ellis
Trad climber
North wet, and Da souf
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Dec 10, 2016 - 10:56am PT
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Moose
Cold cold world backpacks for one!
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Srbphoto
climber
Kennewick wa
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Dec 10, 2016 - 10:59am PT
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Consumer Reports on the other hand emphasizes the criteria and objective measures up front, as a counter example to how to review products.
Their shoe reviews are some of the biggest offenders :)
CMac buys the gear they test. He is trying to use the Consumer Reports model. The biggest issues are defining "top products" and the
resources to buy enough.
From OutdoorGearLab:
Here's how it works:
We select the top products in each category.
We buy all the products we review ourselves, at retail just like you, to help assure complete objectivity and independence in our ratings. We will not accept free evaluation units from manufacturers.
Our OutdoorGearLab Review Editors put the products through detailed side-by-side tests, both in the lab and in the field, and score each product across a range of weighted categories.
We rank the products, explain why, and give awards to the best.
After our testing and reviews are finished, we sell reviewed products on eBay at big discounts. Check out the: OutdoorGearLab eBay Store
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Dec 10, 2016 - 11:56am PT
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I am curious about the Outdoor Gear Lab business model. How could they possibly buy half a dozen high end hard shell jackets review them and then sell them off at half of retail. Not complaining because I got a sweet deal on an Arcteryx shell, but web hits can't be covering the overhead.
I find that Outdoor Gear Labs is more useful for sorting out the various pros and cons of features of a product. Quality and performance is often difficult to review.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Dec 10, 2016 - 01:35pm PT
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I always found that whatever I had, or was affordable, was the best. Take my oldies and add a bread bag liner!
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Dec 10, 2016 - 02:05pm PT
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Cold cold world backpacks for one!
Agreed, but they are climbing packs, not backpacks. Meaning the features one would expect of a pack designed for backpacking are absent (i,e., water bottle pockets). Randy has designed his packs for climbing mixed alpine routes or straight rock climbing. No sheet that will hang up while thrutching up a chimney or hauling.
Other cottage gear manufacturers include:
Tarptent
Hyperlite Mountain Gear
Zpacks
Enlightened Equipment
Six Moons design
ULA
There are many others but my brain is lacking. Check out Backpackinglight.com for more.
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