The Offroad Van Hunt

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zip

Trad climber
pacific beach, ca
Dec 10, 2016 - 07:57am PT
I have a '03 E350 7.3 Quigley Sportsmobile that I have been very happy with.

hooblie

climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
Dec 10, 2016 - 08:47am PT
not a ford or chevy ...
seatbelts, sheetmelts
rwedgee

Ice climber
CA
Dec 10, 2016 - 09:41am PT
17-19mpg from a 7.3 sounds plenty optimistic.
The early Sprinter 2.7 engine gets better mileage than the bigger new ones. I added the Green Diesel Engineering econo tune and eliminated the whole EGR system which bumped the mileage up about 1.5 mpg, so I'm at 22mixed, 24mpg highway. By the way, I only stumbled on GDE because the van wouldn't pass smog and after $2k in unnecessary "repairs" and visits to the CA smog referee who said to keep replacing stuff until it passes. I later learned that the computer will not allow it to pass smog...great. If someone wants to borrow the programming unit the cost is only ~$200
http://www.greendieselengineering.com/SelectProd.action?prodId=36&manufacturer=Green+Diesel+Engineering&category=Sprinter&name=Sprinter+2.7l+CDI+ECO+Tune&model=++
The road to Saline can be very bumper with Sprinter suspension and it's a long road going 5mph. Not sure how the suspension on the 4x4 unit is, perhaps it isn't as stiff as the cargo van units ?
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Dec 10, 2016 - 10:11am PT
never had a problem with clearance as far as rocks and roots and rough roads in our 2wd sprinter. But it's the long wheel base so we could have issues with quick changes in slope angle or large water bars. i doubt they even make the 4wd in the 170" wheelbase though.

Also I didn't see white feathers mentioned in the list of conversion companies.
http://whitefeather4x4conversions.com/
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Dec 10, 2016 - 10:18am PT
I love these threads where people with 0 offroad experience start asking about $$$ off road capable vehicles.

As has been mentioned above several times by those who have apparently at least gone shopping as well at some point - hope you have a fuk-ton of cash laying around. Getting a shiny new vehicle in your driveway is the cheap part.

And for what?

The premis that you'll have a vehicle to "get away from it all" is a fantasy only held by those who have - 0 experience. Reality is a tank of gas and a 4x4 is pretty cheap and common among "fat redneck with a gun" types. Have fun with your new friends, you'll look reeel prreeetty to them in your rig.

You also say you want to combine the dust and damage that comes with 4x4 roads with a nice swank interior conversion? Good luck with that part, too.

And you'll be approaching rock climbs with this thing and you'll be able to access SO MUCH more...yeah, yeah, yeah...never heard this one before either...
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Dec 10, 2016 - 10:43am PT
I love the people that come on here and act like they know it all. If you have all this vast experience perhaps share instead of belittling those that are trying to provide helpful info. We routinely go days without seeing anyone. Just go midweek and all the rednecks with guns are nowhere to be seen. Also, nowhere did the OP say he wanted to 'Get away from it all'. He stated pretty clearly what he wants to get out of the van.
zip

Trad climber
pacific beach, ca
Dec 10, 2016 - 11:01am PT
IGD,

👍
kev

climber
A pile of dirt.
Dec 10, 2016 - 12:09pm PT
Nutagain,

If you've got the bucks the way to go is with these guys

http://ujointoffroad.com/

I'm down in ventura now so if you ever want to look at our 4x4 ford rig you're welcome to come over! Ours is more of a modified Salem/Kroger setup

kev
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Dec 10, 2016 - 01:28pm PT
17-19mpg from a 7.3 sounds plenty optimistic

I don't know about a 4x4 van, which is probably worse, but my F250 is as big as they come. Crew cab, 4x4, long bed, big heavy brush guard on the front. I get 17 on average, mostly highway, consistently. I got just over 19 once on almost all freeway (filled up, drove highway, filled up again) at 65 mph on mostly flat ground. I wanted to see how good it could do. That's with a camper shell which probably helps a little bit. Measured by miles / amount of gas I pump in, waiting for the diesel bubbles to subside. It's also got a chip for better mileage / more power and a non-stock exhaust, but nothing fancy. Stock tire size. 3.73 gear ratio.

One thing people forget a lot is that 99%+ of your driving will be on roads. And they get big 4x4s for that <1% of your driving. Not only is mpg worse but handling, ride, climbing in and out, tire cost, repair cost, parking, etc are all worse. I love 4x4 because I go in the snow and sand, but stock tire size is fine for almost everything. If you need big tires, get out an walk and save wrecking your ride.

Sprinter vans aren't much better than Chevy/Ford vans. All are above average.


http://longtermqualityindex.com/
This site is for real LONG TERM quality, not the 3 years than Consumer Reports considers "long term". I usually buy cars at least 3 years old, but in excellent condition.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Dec 10, 2016 - 01:44pm PT
I edited and it deleted some of my reply. I'll try to remember what I wrote.

I did 5 year and 10 year total cost of ownership estimates last time I bought. It can be eye opening. Purchase price, fuel cost, insurance, maintenance/repairs, tires, registration, resale value at the end. It's what made me realize it was cheaper to have two cars and a truck instead of a car and a daily driver truck. It also convinced me to get a prius. It was cheaper to buy a prius and a truck than buy just a truck and use it as a daily driver, for the options we were looking at.

If it's not a daily driver fuel cost savings may not be all that much. e.g. you may buy a Sprinter thinking you'll save money in fuel cost, but if you pay $10,000 more for the Sprinter you'd have to do a TON of driving to make that up.

I drove trucks for years, mostly toyotas. For the last 10 years I've driven a Subaru and I don't miss driving a truck daily one bit.

Oh yeah, California and the stupid weight fee. In CA if you have a pick up or a cargo van you get charged a weight fee and have to get commercial plates, for us it would be an extra $250 a year! My truck was converted to a "house car" with a campershell and carpet kit before I bought it, I think it's getting harder to get that designation. So you may want to start with a passenger van and convert it, rather than a cargo van. But I guess if you converted a cargo van you should be able to transfer it to a house car with the DMV.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Dec 10, 2016 - 01:57pm PT
I think the chevy awd is a viscous coupling awd. So you have front wheel drive until a wheel spins and then it sends power to the back axle too, or maybe vice versa. Real 4x4 with a transfer case sends power to both axles when engaged, so it's more capable off road but worse mpg.

You can convert an express to full 4x4 but then you are dealing with a customized application which is harder / more expensive to work on as mentioned up thread on the ford van 4x4 conversions.

It's kind of the same thing with powering the left and right wheels. Only one wheel gets power at a time. But if you have a limited slip differential and one wheel spins power will go to the other wheel too. My truck has it and it makes a huge difference.

Another good option would be a Ram with a cummins diesel and a pop up camper. Ram/dodge is not a great chassis (ford is the best) but the cummins is the best engine. They get great mpg. A pop up camper is small and light enough to not hold you back much on rough roads. A big hard sided camper is heavy and wide and you have to drive slowly and carefully off road.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Dec 10, 2016 - 05:12pm PT
We did a ton of 4 wheeling in our AWD astro this summer. It went everywhere! If the Express has a simeler AWD I bet it does just fine.
rwedgee

Ice climber
CA
Dec 10, 2016 - 06:57pm PT
The Fet, I've had several Fords mostly the 7.3's but a 6.0 also , the 6.0 got better mileage but still not as much as yours. I drive mellow, not heavy on the pedal and coast before I'm on the brakes. On my 3rd Subaru now and love it looking for something similar that has a low range 4x4 with a 4 cylinder and gets over 20mpg city. Not a huge Jeep fan but the Patriot has an inline 4 and their "Freedom Off Road Group" package with Continuously Var. Trans with Off-Road Crawl Ratio. Similar size and mileage to a Forester. The Jeep Compass has ~10Cubic feet less cargo so that's a no go. Really hard to find a used one as they list as 4x4 but that is really AWD, not with the 4x4 low. Silver or tan but most are black and white. Thought I found the perfect one but it had manual windows.
LOL who even makes those on a 2015 model ?
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Dec 10, 2016 - 07:02pm PT
I want something big enough to have an indoor kitchen for bug season and crappy weather. big enough to have a bit of breathing room for 2 people and all their gear for extended everyday liveing. we did it in the astro this summer but it was tight.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Dec 11, 2016 - 06:10am PT
Looks like a successful moment there, though!
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Dec 11, 2016 - 11:18am PT
The express awd (and Gmc version) are hard to find in CA.

The only ones I found were at a used truck dealership and they wanted over retail value and wouldn't budge. But I was impressed with them. Drove nice, good power. They are a much newer design vs the ford E series.

I saw an express awd conversion van on Craigslist a couple hours away. I drove down, it looked great. Was planning on buying it but crawled under to start inspecting it and thought where's the awd system? The guy thought it was awd and listed it as such but was plain old rwd. WTF?
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Dec 11, 2016 - 04:00pm PT
Jay. the entire summer was a grand success. Bummed we did not get to hook up with you. We did meet WYO rock man. Super awsome dude. As soon as we got back to the north east we ended up cooking in the rain.. I could get an awning but I really want to be able to stand up to put my pants on ;) There was a bit of Sprinter envy this summer but we also went way, way deeper than we saw the sprinters go.
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 12, 2016 - 11:58am PT
Thanks tons for all the input folks!

Updates:
1. Will not be used as daily driver. I work from home, would use it for grocery runs and occasional errands, and then for adventures.

2. Each summer would do at least one big drive from SoCal up through Oregon or out to Utah. So lots of highway miles, but then go bouncing around on dirt roads to explore. I've never been to North Rim of Grand Canyon, Tuweep/Toroweap and want to visit places way out with no fear of getting stuck in mushy clay when it rains.

3. In between adventures would be climbing and/or backcountry ski runs in the eastern sierra, and some more summer trips with the kids in the eastern sierra, winter/spring break exploring death valley or saline valley, etc.

4. Xmas, winter break ski trips with kids in Tahoe area sleeping in parking lots.

For wifey, truck with camper-shell is a non-starter. Same with trailer. So we are definitely looking at a van. I've thrown out Promaster because of the ridiculously low rear axle even though the front wheel drive was very attractive, and thrown out Transit for the low hanging leaf springs in the back.

Chevy Express or GMC with AWD could be a contender... but what we are focusing on now are Econoline and Mercedes Low Roof Sprinter 4x4 Passenger Wagon. Seems like Mercedes would be better on the highway and the Econoline would be better off-road because of the shorter wheel base and higher clearance with the 4wd conversion and bigger tires. I haven't done homework on how a lift would impact the stock Mercedes Sprinter 4x4.

I've spread-sheeted up the costs for Econoline (9mpg) vs. Mercedes Sprinter 4x4 (16mpg) and honestly it's not much different for 8k-10k miles per year. Especially when cost of a 2014 Econoline with a brand new badass 4wd conversion dictated by us is $36k and cost for a new stock Mercedes Sprinter 4x4 is about $60k out the door. It would take $5/gallon gas and 22,000 miles driving per year before you hit a 5-year break-even on the total cost (also factoring in the $200 oil changes for Mercedes vs $40 oil changes for Ford).


So, Dingus I was almost sold on the fear of Frankstein 4wd conversions... but then I thought if we get the 4wd conversion ourselves from a semi-local highly regarded converter, and we know EXACTLY what parts are modified, it will make it easier to get serviced when needed. Maybe I'm just a fool that needs to get burned before I take my hand out of the fire.


Any other things I should be paying attention to? I'm going to do more homework on these items:

1) Feasibility of getting the cheaper 2wd Mercedes Sprinter and then doing the after-market 4wd conversion to get similar wheel travel and clearance as the Econoline conversion.

2) Explore stock Mercedes Sprinter 4x4 with a lift and bigger tires.

3) Spot check mechanics in the towns nearest to where I'm likely to break down and see where I can find people qualified to deal with either case.

4) What exactly is converted in the badass 4wd conversion and is it all stock parts easy to source or weird stuff with custom welding and drill-holes?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 12, 2016 - 12:11pm PT
I would bet gud money a lift of the Merc would be difficult, if even possible, and a likely voiding of the warranty. It would also be pretty useless unless you put bigger wheels on which might not fit.
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Dec 12, 2016 - 12:28pm PT
Couple of quick things
1. What would the base interior be like in the econoline vs sprinter.
2. You've done the research but isn't the stock sprinter 4x4 way less than 60k? I thought it was well under 50k.
3. Our converted 158"sprinter with solar panels and roof racks gets over 20mpg regularly. Edmunds says the 4x4 sprinter is right at 20mpg. Others say higher.
4. The sprinter is likely to have MUCH higher resale value.
5. You appear to be using the upper end cost of a sprinter oil change and the low end for the econoline.

OTOH, if the Sprinter breaks down it is typically very expensive to fix. We were just recently almost stuck in Lake Isabella for 2 weeks waiting for a part but the mechanic was able to Frankenstein some hoses together to get us back.
Messages 21 - 40 of total 61 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
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