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Ferretlegger
Trad climber
san Jose, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 1, 2016 - 08:31am PT
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Hello all,
I have some fabric projects which would be made much easier and nicer if I had a bar tacker. I do have an industrial walking foot sewing machine which will sew through most anything, but it is hard to make nice looking high strength "welds" like you see on sewn runners, for example. I was thinking about looking for one on FleaBay or some other source, but have no experience with brands, models, cautions, or other lessons typically learned through hard experience. If anyone has had experience with these machines I would appreciate hearing any beta you can share which will help me avoid making mistakes.
Thanks,
Michael
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Gunkie
Trad climber
Valles Marineris
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Good luck getting a bartacking sewing machine. But all I think about when I hear 'bartacking' is Luca Brasi in the Godfather getting his hand 'tacked' to the bar with a knife then getting strangled to death.
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Perhaps you could pay someone with a bar tacker to make those stitches for you? Russ, Rainy Pass?
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Mike,
I've done the equivalent of bar tacking using a buttonhole function on an ordinary sewing machine. I used it making belay seats, a bivy hammock and a haul bag, all of which withstood my rather considerable abuse.
John
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Russ Walling
Social climber
from Poofters Froth, Wyoming
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Ya should have been here last week... I just tossed one in the trash, a 42 stitch cycle Juki.
It needed a couple of parts and I got tired of looking at it. No trade in value (so I was told) and it was just sitting here. Dumpster.
Bartacks are over rated anyway. I worked for years without one and have not encountered a single instance where the use of one would be mandatory.
Good luck with your search.
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Ferretlegger
Trad climber
san Jose, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 1, 2016 - 02:46pm PT
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Thanks for the replies, guys. Sometimes when in the middle of a project, being strangled seems the better option! However, since I am only planning it, I WANT TO LIVE!! Josh, it appears that the standard models are made by Brother or Juki. Most new ones, even on EBay, seem to run north of $2000, and many use 220V 3 Phase. The ones I have seen so far are real industrial machines, with an integrated table and a motor the size of a BIG watermelon under the table. You can apparently find ones that run on 115VAC, but they are not the default. In other words, these are not like a home machine, or even the normal walking foot type. Here is a link I found to a company in Los Angeles which I have run across in the past, which seems to really know/do industrial sewing machines.
Atlas Levy sewing machines.
http://www.atlaslevy.com/Bartack_c_111.html
I may give them a call and discuss things. This is not as simple as I thought...
But then I am a climber- underestimating things is a genetic blindness shared by many others on this forum, I am sure.
Michael
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Ferretlegger
Trad climber
san Jose, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 1, 2016 - 02:47pm PT
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Ah shucks, Russ! as Maxwell Smart used to say- "Missed it by THAT much".
Thanks for the reply.
Michael
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The Larry
climber
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I've got one here in Moab Mike if you'd like to check it out.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
from Poofters Froth, Wyoming
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Something like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/111874915890?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_noapp=true
or this:
http://floridasewingmachines.com/tackers/juki-lk-1850-label-tacker-134-58-42-stitches.html
Some motors are just a wire flip away from 220/240 to 110. A new motor for 110 is about $125 and an easy swap out.
You can find either machine at Atlas (a good outfit) or other sorta local vendors for around $1500 or so used. The Brother is more reliable, but the Juki is faster. Pick your poison.
If you are super handy you can get a brand new knockoff for about $1400 of the Juki models. They even give you a Juki parts and instruction manual. The shame!!
I've never seen anything worth owning for under about $1200. This pushes it out of the hobbyist range.
Edit: Maybe lease or rent one?? Lots of them around the garment district used for belt loop tacks on jeans. Might be a mission to find one though.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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You should check out what Larry has!
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Ferretlegger
Trad climber
san Jose, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 1, 2016 - 07:20pm PT
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Larry,
Great to hear from you! Long time no see. I am in Moab for another week or so. Give me a call. Jay has the number.
Michael
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Ferretlegger
Trad climber
san Jose, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 1, 2016 - 07:23pm PT
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Russ, those are both interesting links. Thanks. I am at an early stage in learning about these machines. I need to be sure they are what i need. But it's a TOOL!!!!!!!!!!!! Waaaagh!!!!!!!
Thanks again
Michael
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Moof
Big Wall climber
Orygun
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I have a Brother LK-430, just like the picture but white. It does not have an automatic oiler, which is obnoxious, but not too obnoxious for the amount I use it for. Mine runs on 110V, and cost me $900 well used from a local guy I found on Craigslist who has a side business dealing with this kind of stuff. I let him know what I was after and a few weeks later he called me when he got two.
I agree with Russ that while they are faster and more consistent, they are very much not necessary. It was clearly was some other pattern, and was modified and part swapped to make it work.
For home stuff avoid anything that need comoressed air. My walking foot Durkopp Adler 767 is awesome, but dealing with the air SUCKS.
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Peater
Trad climber
Salt Lake City Ut.
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Russ and others have good advice. I'll add:
Bartacks come in two flavors 42 stitch and 28 stitch. You want the 42. The garment industry uses mostly the 28.
Bartacks are not hard to maintain. If you set them up right to sew what your materials\fabrics are they will last and last.
Conversely if you don't have a little experience with a bartack machine you could be breaking it frequently (your fault). They move rapidly on their cam when cycling and if you hold your materials too tightly you are going to break the needle, needle hole plate, damage the hook or possibly yourself. Just hold the material loosely and let the beast do it's thing.
Most bartacks new or used will be set up for thin polyester or cotton thread. You want one that uses at least nylon 69, 99 or 138 thread. That requires a bigger needle size (22 is good), bigger needle whole plate (2.6 mm or thereabouts is good. The shuttle hook, that's the thing that goes back and forth inside the arm of the machine comes in different specs. You want the shuttle hook for the heavier thread you'll be using. And you'll want the machine to be setup for you for the things you'd be sewing.
Motors you can swap or wires changed. It doesn't cost all that much for a different motor. Though I think changing a 220 3P to 110 may be suspect arrangement.
I don't know where you are located but with a short learning curve I think you can do a lot of bartacking without too much trouble.
Typical trouble would be: frayed thread caused by a scratch in the needle hole plate: use some emery cord on a string to smooth it out. Or a nick on the hook: same solution, just clean it off with some emery paper.
The rest of the machine should last forever. I've seen machines last for 10 or more years with just a clutch replacement, just depends on how much you use it.
Beware though: Just use your machine for making gear.
I'll add after all that, that you really don't need a bartack machine. Very few do unless you are going into business.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
from Poofters Froth, Wyoming
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^^^^^
Peater knows his stuff.
the other constant bummer is the thread trimmers will stop cutting or will fray the thread and leave ugly loose ends. Sometimes the difference is just putting a single layer of foil under the blade. Close tolerance on them trimmers.
My Brother machine I got in like 1985... still running like a champ. One clutch/cone replacement. The Juki was more temperamental (the one in the dumpster) and also needed a clutch and some bearings in the ass end. It ran for about 17 years in production.
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Peater
Trad climber
Salt Lake City Ut.
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Hi Russ thanks
It's easy to sharpen the fixed under trimmer on a bartack machine. Just grind the blade down just a tiny bit with an aluminum oxide grinder wheel. If you look at the blade closely you can see where the moving blade scoops by each time. Grind the angled lower surface and not the upper. Just touch it to the cutting edge to grind it flat again. Really don't cut too much. Don't change the angle or cut too much. If that makes it too low to cut the thread just put a super fine shim below it in the machines arm to raise it up a bit. (The blades are at an angle and when you grind off a bit the edge becomes lower). I almost never tossed trimmer blades or moving blades out because I could always get them to work again.
Like wise the upper moving trimmer. The little hole on the moving Juki blade. Just a faint touch with the pencil air grinder blade would sharpen that up. And that part was way more expensive.
Aluminum Oxide grinder is the most handy tool in the shop besides an air grinder.
Shall I now tell you how to time a Union Special 36200 AJ flatlock which is what most of your back county Patagonia underwear is made with.
Sorry just goofing But the above is true.
Had fun writing this post. (for the 000000.1% who cares)
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OlympicMtnBoy
climber
Seattle
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I had fun reading this, just cause. The faux bartacks I make on my old singer home machine in zigzag mode work for me for non-life safety, or box stitches. But most of you posting here make far radder stuff than I (and things I might hang my ass on). The gear I have from Moof and Russ go out on every wall I do!
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Ferretlegger
Trad climber
san Jose, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 1, 2016 - 11:19pm PT
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Wow, thanks Peater and Russ for the detailed info. My needs for this are for some projects for sailing, and also for aiders, etc. For sailing, a chronic need is jacklines, 1" webbing which runs from the bow to the stern on each side of the boat and to which you clip your tether. I use 10,000 pound breaking strength polyester 1" webbing which I get from Hathaway and Reiser, a sailmaker on the east coast. I usually sew with MANY, MANY passes through the walking foot machine with V-138 thread. Some tests have shown that these sort of eyes in 1" webbing break in unexpected ways, and that just blasting stitching into the webbing may not be as secure as your intuition might lead you to believe. Bar tacks have been used successfully for many years to close webbing loops with 5000 pound breaking strength, so trying them in these jacklines would be interesting. I hope to build a hydraulic ram testing jig to see how this works.
Anyway, If I can find a bartacker aat a reasonable price (gag!!!) I may get a chance to try it. I greatly appreciate the advice above to look for a 42 stitch machine. That makes perfect sense. Thanks for the tip.
Michael
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Peater
Trad climber
Salt Lake City Ut.
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I am appalled at some some of the sketchy sewn gear that I used to risk my life on in the 70's, Most of it home sewn. I still have sling that I'll maybe post a pic of some day.
They just didn't know anything then. And neither did I. Thanks to Russ, Frog and others for making us safe.
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
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Uh oh. What are you thinking of making now?
I leave Moab and you start grinding gears. Ummmm
Susan
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