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Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Dec 14, 2016 - 08:39am PT
Patrick, I'll belay you how you see fit. No one gets dropped on my watch. No one.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Dec 14, 2016 - 09:01am PT
and there you have it: let's just re-write every definition so that it suits our needs at any moment. Just because that tard Jonah Goldberg said so, doesn't make it so.

Haha. Yeah FDRs new deal drew no similarities....which have been getting more and more similar with each passing election- regardless of the party.

Not sure who this Goldberg is you speak of. But I've always thought Wolfgang Schivelbusch is pretty smart.

For reference: https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/hitler-mussolini-roosevelt
dirtbag

climber
Dec 14, 2016 - 09:09am PT
Perhaps the most infuriating accusation spewed by leftists over the years has been to equate Republican Presidents with Hitler and their followers as fascists, or more recently, as a “basket of deplorables” who are “irredeemable.” Such charges are drenched with the intellectual dyslexia that dominates classrooms, newsrooms, and entertainment chat rooms where reductio ad Hitlerum rhetoric (Leo Strauss’s phrase) displaces reasoned argument.

Steve Bannon is a deplorable who boasted in August that breitbart was a haven for the alt right (which include nazis and other white supremacist types). That's an ugly fookin fact that you are just going to have to suck on.

Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Dec 14, 2016 - 09:30am PT
73-year-old dementia-stricken Calif. man fatally shot by police was carrying crucifix, not gun

Another win for the hard-working cops.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Dec 14, 2016 - 09:42am PT
Wonder where this is going to go? Will we be looking at the alt.right and their companions here screaming

LOCK HIM UP!

Trump’s national security adviser shared secrets without permission, files show
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Dec 14, 2016 - 09:47am PT
So Trump has time to meet with Kanye, for the great value of such a meeting, but has no time nor inclination to meet with the National Intelligence briefers.

This is certainly going to be an information-deficient administration.
dirtbag

climber
Dec 14, 2016 - 10:02am PT
For our conservative friends here:

Emoluments Clause of the Constitution (Article I, Section 9, Clause 8):

"No title of nobility shall be granted by the United States: and no person holding any office of profit or trust under them, shall, without the consent of the Congress, accept of any present, emolument, office, or title, of any kind whatever, from any king, prince, or foreign state."

Emolument: "a salary, fee, or profit from employment or office."

Trump is going to be violating this, probably nearly every day.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Dec 14, 2016 - 10:10am PT
.....National Intelligence briefers....

Maybe Trump preferred the company of a nutcase over constant liars?

Tough call...

Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Dec 14, 2016 - 10:21am PT
Robert Reich:

Always follow the money.

Yesterday former Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice, former Defense Secretary Robert Gates, and former Secretary of States James Baker issued glowing statements about Rex Tillerson, Trump’s selection for Secretary of State.

The media gave those endorsements lots of play (e.g., ABC’s George Stephanopoulos said “Tillerson “Came Well-Recommended” From Baker, Gates, and Rice”).

But no one disclosed that Baker, Gates, and Rice are all being paid by Exxon Mobil.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Dec 14, 2016 - 10:29am PT
I saw this post by a Tea Partier on Facebook today, reposted by a person I know to be a blue collar liberal:

We have approximately 4 years to make fraudulent voting abolished in the ash heaps of history! Re-register every voter with a voter ID card with proof of citizenship! & no early voting through absentee ballots without photo proof of ID!

While I believe that most of these efforts are actually for the purpose of voter suppression, I cannot deny that the optics of opposing ID are wrong.

Here in Ca, we require an ID if it is the first time that you are voting, at the polling place. However, the list of acceptable ID is very long and reasonable.

In many of these attempts, the requirement is absurd.....College picture ID is not acceptable, but a concealed-carry license is?

I also agree that now is the time to sort this out, not in the weeks before an election.

I'm not sure how one deals with absentee ballots. Right now, they have to match the signatures when registered, to the signature on the envelope. Reasonable, but very time intensive.
Norton

Social climber
Dec 14, 2016 - 10:49am PT
Ken, legally signatures are considered valid until or unless contested.

So that is not a concern with absentee ballots.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Dec 14, 2016 - 10:52am PT
Norton, I agree. I was really responding to the OP which contested that.

Although signatures can be easily forged, I suppose.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Dec 14, 2016 - 11:01am PT
So Trump has time to meet with Kanye, for the great value of such a meeting, but has no time nor inclination to meet with the National Intelligence briefers.

Ken M your confused

Kanye is speaking to Trump on behalf of the Black lives matter movement.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Dec 14, 2016 - 11:14am PT
However, we are about to have a new system of voting in Ca:


September 29, 2016
SACRAMENTO – A measure authored by Senator Ben Allen (D – Santa Monica) and Senator Robert Hertzberg (D – Van Nuys) to transform the way elections are conducted was signed into law by Governor Jerry Brown today. SB 450 authorizes counties to replace neighborhood polling places with conveniently located vote centers and allow voting in the 10 days preceding and election; it also requires every voter to be mailed a vote-by-mail ballot.

“Our current system of limiting voters to casting their ballot at a single location on a single day has failed, as our voter turnout rates have continued to decline toward record lows. People lead increasingly complicated lives; we should provide them with maximum flexibility when it comes to voting. Under this new law, people will be able to choose the time and place to vote that is most convenient for their lifestyle and their schedule. This is part of an effort to modernize our voting system to meet contemporary needs,” said Senator Allen.

“I am glad the governor has signed SB 450 because it is time for us to modernize the voting process and provide Californians the same convenience and flexibility in casting a ballot as they have in so many other areas of their lives,” Hertzberg said. “You can stream a movie over the internet or deposit a check with your phone at any time, but without this bill, many people still have to rearrange their busy schedules to get to a polling place on a single day and that has hurt turnout.”

Under SB 450, voters will be able to vote in person at vote centers located at public spots throughout their county for the 10 days prior to an election, including two weekends. Also, every voter will receive a vote by mail ballot that can be returned by mail, or dropped off at any vote center.

SB 450 is patterned after the successful way Colorado conducts its elections. Since instituting the vote center model, Colorado’s voter turnout has risen to third among all states. It also significantly reduced the cost of holding elections.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Dec 14, 2016 - 11:19am PT
Howdy Reilly, I am not saying that Robert's assessment is necessarily incorrect, but at the risk of thread drift, here is my take on it.

Maggie had surprisingly become PM, and in 1982 her poll ratings were hovering around 22%, pretty low.

In Argentina, the generals were watching an economy tank and a lot of civil unrest, which just disappearing some people was not going to quell, so they did what many "leaders" over centuries have done, they cooked up a war, what better way than to get the people behind you.

Considering Maggie's position, I cannot help but wonder if she secretly welcomed the Junta's decision to go after the Falklands, as it boosted her popularity in Britain. Maybe that is cynical of me to think.

The generals underestimated Maggie, yes. Now as a journalist in London in the mid-late 1980s and early '90s, I sometimes had to put up with Brits telling me that the US did not help Britain. The fact that Reagan had to contend with the OAS and had some cabinet members split about what help to give, considering the political scenario, I took a lot of flack from some British colleagues when I said that without US aid, Britain could not have won the Falklands War. I remind them that Caspar Weinberger received an honorary British knighthood for his role in helping Britain.

Now, what does this have to do with this thread or its topic? Nothing. I am just spouting off.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Dec 14, 2016 - 12:36pm PT
how about you start with the most basic definition of "fascism"

By all means yes. Since the leftys are the one's with the most experience with it, let's have you define it.

Then please expound on the ways our government has NOT been moving in the direction of your definition over the last 30 to 50 plus years.

This could be good.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Dec 14, 2016 - 12:40pm PT
The "topic" is officially "why it happened"...

So I would guess it's pretty much anything. As long as it happened.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Dec 14, 2016 - 01:37pm PT
Do you know anyone who gets upset when they hear "happy holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas"?

None that I can think of. Most of the people I consider friends aren't wound that tight regardless of whether they happen to be Jews, Christians, Pagans or what have you.
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Dec 14, 2016 - 01:38pm PT
By all means yes. Since the leftys are the one's with the most experience with it, let's have you define it.

Do you have some weight to that claim?

Kinda like Trump's "People are saying..."

From Wikipedia -

"Fascism /ˈfæʃɪzəm/ is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism[1][2] that came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe, influenced by national syndicalism. Fascism originated in Italy during World War I and spread to other European countries. Fascism opposes liberalism, Marxism and anarchism and is usually placed on the far-right within the traditional left–right spectrum.[3][4]"
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Dec 14, 2016 - 01:47pm PT
The 14 Characteristics of Fascism

Political scientist Dr. Lawrence Britt recently wrote an article about fascism ("Fascism Anyone?," Free Inquiry, Spring 2003, page 20). Studying the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile), Dr. Britt found they all had 14 elements in common. He calls these the identifying characteristics of fascism. The excerpt is in accordance with the magazine's policy.

The 14 characteristics are:
1.Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.


2.Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.


3.Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.


4.Supremacy of the Military
Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.


5.Rampant Sexism
The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.


6.Controlled Mass Media
Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.


7.Obsession with National Security
Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.


8.Religion and Government are Intertwined
Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.


9.Corporate Power is Protected
The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.


10.Labor Power is Suppressed
Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed .


11.Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.


12.Obsession with Crime and Punishment
Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.


13.Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.


14.Fraudulent Elections
Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

https://ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html

The GOP has been promoting all 14 Characteristics for decades.
Donald Trump's vision is fascism on steroids
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