Climate Change: Why aren't more people concerned about it?

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TLP

climber
Nov 3, 2018 - 09:54pm PT
I totally get the rationale for excepting aviation, and agree there's no plausible alternative right now. But it's the camel's nose. The folks that own the governments of several major countries including the U.S. and Russia like their planes and helicopters, they'll get their exceptions, and then we're off to the races. Agriculture (which also has a big ownership stake in government) will also maintain it's infeasible to maintain our level of food production without ICEs, or will just keep running them for a century anyway. And we all have to eat, no? And on and on. Yes we should have some hard targets, but history shows that's not effective by itself.

That's where a combination approach can help keep things on track. Carbon tax has its downsides too. Ideally it should be returned to the lower end of the income scale who tend to be more affected both by consumption taxes and by climate effects, but then we'll hear about, oh, some of it should help mitigate climate effects... and that part will end up being diverted to high-end housing on coasts and other stupid places.

So, no matter what, a lot of vigilance and dedication to the goal is required. But the first and most important step is what we see right here: acknowledge there's a big problem and start talking about doing something about it. Soon! Thanks to all for their informative and thoughtful posts.
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Nov 4, 2018 - 12:06am PT
Ah, so you have ended up agreeing with me and refuting yourself.

"The disincentive would likely be baked into the macro-economics of a petrol industry now a shadow of its former self. Gasoline would be expensive and scarce. IC engine cars would be a hobby."

What happened to your silly claims that expensive gas is a bad thing?

If it gets expensive due to an RNCF you say it's bad.
But if it's expensive due to these vague shadow bakings and magical hobbys, that is a good thing.
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Nov 8, 2018 - 04:00pm PT

An apology to Al Gore

https://cart.mn/sp-2206

Canada: https://www.much.com/shows/south-park/episode/1493194/time-to-get-cereal/
Lituya

Mountain climber
Nov 8, 2018 - 05:24pm PT
What happened to your silly claims that expensive gas is a bad thing?

If it gets expensive due to an RNCF you say it's bad.
But if it's expensive due to these vague shadow bakings and magical hobbys, that is a good thing.

Again, for your benefit, Splater, a carbon tax simply puts govt into bed with producers. Not sure why you're having so much difficulty with this. In any event, not sure why you're sniping; we're basically on the same side re thread topic, right?
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Nov 11, 2018 - 07:32am PT
Warming hurting shellfish, aiding predators, ruining habitat
https://business.financialpost.com/pmn/business-pmn/warming-hurting-shellfish-aiding-predators-ruining-habitat

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/10/181030150702.htm

https://spo.nmfs.noaa.gov/sites/default/files/pdf-content/mfr8011.pdf
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Nov 15, 2018 - 06:34am PT

http://www.formaclorimerbooks.ca/Book/3069/The-Big-Stall.html
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Nov 15, 2018 - 04:00pm PT
https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/07/opinions/california-fires-what-its-like-tess-taylor-opinion/index.html
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Nov 16, 2018 - 11:54am PT

Massive crater under Greenlandís ice points to climate-altering impact in the time of humans

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/11/massive-crater-under-greenland-s-ice-points-climate-altering-impact-time-humans


http://www.astronomy.com/news/2018/11/massive-impact-crater-beneath-greenland-could-explain-ice-age-climate-swing
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Nov 16, 2018 - 01:02pm PT
e360: Another point the report makes is that the Trump administration is in the process of revoking the Clean Power Plan, of pulling back on vehicle fuel efficiency standards. This seems like another disconnect.

Pacala: Well, the U.S. is of course a very special case right now internationally. It has decided to take a non-evidence based approach to dealing with the climate problem, and itís something that in my view is a national disgrace. Itís something that we are going to end up correcting as a people. The ongoing denials of the science, particularly in Republican Party circles, are just something that true conservatives wouldnít condone. Business people make evidence-based decisions ó they have to or they donít survive.

https://e360.yale.edu/features/negative-emissions-is-it-feasible-to-remove-co2-from-the-air
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 18, 2018 - 09:36am PT
All those blue Californicators are a bunch of hypocrites. They are too uncaring to bother to
recycle their cellphones so they just throw away 42,000 per day!
TLP

climber
Nov 18, 2018 - 10:35am PT
Malemute's right; but not going hard after fuel efficiency is not just a climate disconnect, it is bad for the consumer public, and bad for business interests. It's monumentally idiotic.

For example, over the time period I've owned my current work vehicle, a 10% difference in mpg would amount to a fuel cost difference of about $4000, which is roughly 20% of the vehicle price paid. Paying more for a vehicle that gets better mileage pencils out as a big savings over time. Not to mention climate and air quality benefits.

The rest of the world is a big market for vehicles, and they are not so dimwitted. US executives might figure that in the short run their stock options are worth more if they don't invest to be able to compete on mileage, but in the long run we lose out to the rest of the world; they'll eat our lunch, dinner, and dessert too.
del cross

climber
Nov 18, 2018 - 10:47am PT
Paying more for a vehicle that gets better mileage pencils out as a big savings over time.

Are you sure?

I've done the comparison in the past between a gasoline powered small vehicle and a comparably sized electric hybrid and found that it was less expensive over the life of the car to buy the gasoline model. I've been looking forward to the day that the balance shifts. Has it?
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Nov 18, 2018 - 01:45pm PT
https://medium.com/@briankent/gas-versus-electric-the-final-showdown-209c2117dbe3
del cross

climber
Nov 18, 2018 - 03:03pm PT
A nice article. Thanks.

It appears better for electric vehicles than the last time I looked but it's still at best a wash for the type of car I've used for comparison: specifically, the Honda Civic, which was in that article. It beat the entire field, although not by much.

So we might be at the point now where a small electric sedan costs roughly the same as a comparable gasoline model, over a 15 year lifetime. That means the incentive to go electric is still not an economic one, at least in that vehicle class.

If I were to buy a car today I'd buy a gasoline car, primarily due to the convenience of fueling. I'm not sure how I'd do a road trip in an electric car. For a city only use it would work fine, but again, why would I choose electric instead of gasoline? There are reasons but saving money isn't one of them.

For other classes of vehicle the argument is stronger, at least for certain types of usage.
moosedrool

climber
Andrzej Citkowicz far away from Poland
Nov 18, 2018 - 03:36pm PT
why would I choose electric instead of gasoline?

Because it is awesome?

Credit: moosedrool

Mooselectric
Lituya

Mountain climber
Nov 18, 2018 - 05:06pm PT
https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2018-11-18/minister-says-409-injured-in-gas-tax-protests-around-france
TLP

climber
Nov 18, 2018 - 05:47pm PT
del cross, well, those are the numbers for my vehicle. Actual miles driven, and the 10% difference in amount of fuel to drive that distance, multiplied by a price per gallon that's representative of recent years, in the two states where I drive (mostly). It's not perfect; gas price was lower when I bought the vehicle, and it's much higher out in the boonies. I paid about $20K for it, and the cumulative gas cost for a 10% difference in mileage is roughly $4K. For a 20% difference in mileage, double that.

Vehicles cost a lot more than they did then, and it's possible the added cost of a hybrid wouldn't pay off unless you keep it for decades. If we were really paying the total cost, including health and environmental damages like increased costs of fires and floods and storms, fuel efficiency would be a gigantic bargain.

Edited to add: by far the most spiff platform for vehicles is the one used by the Chevy Volt, and there's now a pickup truck (Workforce is the brand I think). These are fully electric vehicles with an onboard gas-powered generator once your charge is used up. Even when running entirely on the gas generator, I think the mileage is way better than a comparable gas ICE vehicle (not sure). Then factor in that you can charge it from your solar panels, and it's a good plan.
john hansen

climber
Nov 18, 2018 - 08:12pm PT
Is there a way to create energy from carbon with out burning it?

A simple question.

I doubt that it can be done.

I think the human race is in for some rough times ahead, we keep polluting and degrading every environment we touch.

The sea's abundance and coral reefs are already going down hill.

Like the buffalo, human's exploit everything they can until there are no more.

There is already a mass extinction event going on and it is caused by mankind and global warming.

I live in Hawaii and 70% of the endemic birds have gone extinct

So much land in the world is being cleared for things like palm oil farms, and altered from it's original state . some day maybe we will figure it out but until then.

Migration pathways are blocked by freeways , where cars and trucks spew more carbon onto the air.

The Polar bears are suffering from too little ice , the walrus's are suffering too,,crowding on shore when usually they're out on the ice.




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