Climate Change: Why aren't more people concerned about it?

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 2421 - 2440 of total 2440 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
moosedrool

climber
Andrzej Citkowicz far away from Poland
Jul 10, 2018 - 10:42pm PT
CO2 sequestration?

Clean energy?

Dream on, people, because if you open your eyes, you will see the truth, and its very scary.

There is no sense of emergency as people are distracted by the little things, like illegal immigration or abortion.

Even if we come up with a plan within the next 10 years, It will be too late anyway.

Enjoy the life when you still can.

Moose
Lituya

Mountain climber
Jul 10, 2018 - 11:03pm PT
IMO, the only solution is an international treaty to phase out fossil fuel burning over the next 30-50 years. Start with internal combustion engines and move on to power plants. No "catch up" prescription for lagging economies e.g. Kyoto. Mandate new technology in stages.

Not sure how to solve the aviation problem. Or nitrogen-based fertilizer issue.

Like you said, it might be too late--but it's better than the present course.
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Jul 10, 2018 - 11:37pm PT
The kids who did this are the ones in charge of climate change policy in USA now:



Of course it's a very serious issue and I was opportunistic in sharing this awesome video here for some levity... but there is a moral lesson that transfers nicely.
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Jul 11, 2018 - 06:02am PT
Economist Joseph Stiglitz writes of climate change: There is a point at which, once this harm occurs, it cannot be undone at any reasonable cost or in any reasonable period of time. Based on the best available science, our country is close to approaching that point.

https://insideclimatenews.org/news/11072018/joseph-stiglitz-kids-climate-change-lawsuit-global-warming-costs-economic-impact

EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jul 11, 2018 - 06:09am PT
I'm looking for high ground (something out of the 1000yr flood plain), without surrounding slopes that could slide, in a sufficient rainfall zone to have a water supply and ability to grow some food, at elevation high enough to not be 120 degrees all summer, but somewhat protected from forest fires.

I don't even know where that would be. I'm all ears if you have suggestions.

Go East, old man.

Virginia is nice.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jul 11, 2018 - 08:44am PT
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north

Jul 10, 2018 - 08:53pm PT

Heat waves bother you? Under Trump climate policies, add another 12F
America faces monster 131F heat waves in the coming decades

Trump is to blame. Obviously.

Derp
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Jul 11, 2018 - 10:45am PT
I agree with you, trumpy is indeed the most powerful single person presently stopping progress on climate policy. And is therefore now to blame.
Only the sketchy brained would think otherwise.

He is now pushing all the BS put out over the last 30 years by the kochs, exxons, inhofes, bushes, heatlands, alecs, repugs, crichtons, watts, pruitts, fauxspews, etc.

more top deniers:
https://www.beforetheflood.com/explore/the-deniers/top-10-climate-deniers/

https://www.ecowatch.com/climate-deniers-in-trump-administration-2518894384.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/29/climate/google-search-climate-change.html

https://ecowarriorprincess.net/2018/03/key-tactics-climate-change-deniers-use-how-counter-climate-denial/

http://redgreenandblue.org/2018/06/14/climate-change-deniers-dont-want-businesses-adapt-thats-bad-business/

August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Jul 11, 2018 - 04:14pm PT
CO2 sequestration?

Clean energy?

Dream on, people, because if you open your eyes, you will see the truth, and its very scary.

There is no sense of emergency as people are distracted by the little things, like illegal immigration or abortion.

Even if we come up with a plan within the next 10 years, It will be too late anyway.

Enjoy the life when you still can.

I think it is foolish to put all our hopes on some game-changing technology saving us. But it is certainly possible that some game-changing technology might.

I think a middle age, heavy smoker with early stages of emphysema is a reasonable analogy. Yes, we need to cold quit cigarettes. Cold quitting won't repair the damage already done. Going from 2 packs a day to 1 pack a day will slow the disease progression. Maybe it will buy time for new technology. Maybe it will just buy a little time to adjust to the new normal.

The world in general and the US in particular has a lot of wealth and technology. There is lot that could be done to mitigate effects. But I don't see that we will have the political will to do so. An example that I given before, the country should plan on abandoning southern Florida. If it was done over the next hundred years, it wouldn't cost as much in lost property and destroyed lives as if we let it repeatedly flood before suddenly deciding after one flood too many to not rebuild this time.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jul 11, 2018 - 04:20pm PT
There is no sense of emergency as people...

phagocytize their 10 trillionth burger.
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Jul 11, 2018 - 04:22pm PT
IMO, the only solution is an international treaty to phase out fossil fuel burning over the next 30-50 years. Start with internal combustion engines and move on to power plants. No "catch up" prescription for lagging economies e.g. Kyoto. Mandate new technology in stages.

Not sure how to solve the aviation problem. Or nitrogen-based fertilizer issue.

Like you said, it might be too late--but it's better than the present course.

There are some things that markets are very good at. We don't need to outlaw internal combustion engines or decide ahead of time how to solve aviation CO2 production.

You just steadily ramp up a tax on CO2 equivalent and the market will solve everyone of these problems for you.
Lituya

Mountain climber
Jul 11, 2018 - 05:29pm PT
^^Respectfully, this is a bad idea. Getting government addicted to the revenue a "carbon tax" would generate would only make them a bigger part of the problem than they are now.

Although it pains me to say it, mandates are a more effective solution here. As long as they are even-handed, well-defined, and universal.

August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Jul 11, 2018 - 11:01pm PT
And why would you expect them to be even handed, we'll defined and universal?

How is that any more politically likely than a well run tax scheme?


Picking winners and losers is really problematic even by wonkish experts. When it is done by politicians who are bought by lobbyists, good luck with that...

I would be fine with a law that said that all money raised by such tax had to be evenly distributed back to US citizens and have the courts actually enforce that.

The reality is that I expect our political institutions to do jack and squat so we are only talking hypotheticals anyway.
Dingus Milktoast

Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
Jul 12, 2018 - 07:14am PT
The reality is that I expect our political institutions to do jack and squat so we are only talking hypotheticals anyway.

Bam.

DMT
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Jul 12, 2018 - 01:41pm PT
A carbon fee should never be mentioned without calling it revenue neutral.
RNCT = revenue neutral carbon tax or RNCF = revenue neutral carbon fee.
Every dime it takes in would be paid back by lowering income taxes.
So the revenue net is zero. There is no new tax, it's a tax shift from low carbon users to high carbon users, to pay for external costs.

This carbon fee is not to be confused with fuel taxes for highway & transportation maintenance. That fuel tax needs to be increased just to pay for highways since the federal tax has not been increased in 30 years.

Mandates are usually easy to screw up with loopholes, exceptions, and massive bureaucracy. They amount to the government picking winners and losers instead of the market responding to proper incentives. Take the last act of Scott pruitt for instance, which was to say the EPA will allow an unlimited number of brand new trucks to be built with ancient polluting diesel engines. They actually pollute more than the total pollution caused by the VW diesel cheating.

Another example: energy storage. California decreed that pumped hydro does not count as green energy. but they do count batteries, which are far more expensive. This happens with mandates because insiders lobby for their pet projects.
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Jul 14, 2018 - 06:42am PT
Iceberg 6 kilometers long breaks off from Greenland glacier

https://www.ctvnews.ca/sci-tech/iceberg-6-kilometres-long-breaks-off-from-greenland-glacier-1.4011691
xCon

Social climber
909
Jul 14, 2018 - 06:50am PT
the carbon tax is an interium measure
the question is how interium

the reason their stalling so hard is because once its set then the numbers guys banking and insurance are forced to amended their work

at that point the cost will be so concrete and astromonical that the half measures weve been batting around will be roundly dismissed and we will get to work really dealing with the problem

A stop fueling the problem
B convert the infrastructure soas to be able to ride out the enivitable
C reorder society given these drastic changes
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Jul 14, 2018 - 11:00am PT
^^^

I still hope that someday the world will take serious steps to address the problem. As opposed to the rather mild steps we've seen so far.

But it is not my expectation.

As far as a carbon tax:

The market would respond far more efficiently to a carbon tax than to mandates. A carbon tax could certainly be revenue neutral. Either because other taxes were lowered or because you directly returned the money raised to the population as I suggested earlier.

There are real concerns about a carbon tax. If you increased a CO2 tax from say $10/ton up to $1000+/ton in 30 or 40 years. At the beginning it wouldn't raise much money, the tax would be too low. There would be a period where it would be raising a huge amount of money as the tax was high enough to bite but the market was still in the process of decarbonizing. Once the tax gets really high and the market has almost entirely shifted away from CO2 generating activities, the revenue would plummet. If you had cut taxes during the high carbon revenue years, you would then have the politically difficult issue of raising them back again.

That is why I think it may be better to take the amount of carbon tax raised each quarter, divide it by the population and return it to the people. Yes, the people will take a hit when the carbon revenue dwindles, but that is more politically manageable than trying to raise taxes back.

But I literally expect Miami to be underwater before any of this happens.
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Jul 14, 2018 - 06:46pm PT

Rising ocean waters from global warming could cost trillions of dollars

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2018/jul/12/rising-ocean-waters-from-global-warming-could-cost-trillions-of-dollars?CMP=share_btn_tw
SomebodyAnybody

Big Wall climber
Torrance
Jul 15, 2018 - 07:47am PT
A mail carrier died of heat stroke on her route in Woodland Hills during that heatwave. It wasn't a walking route, but it was 117 and the mail trucks don't have AC.

https://www.sacbee.com/news/state/california/article214616420.html

Go East, old man.

Virginia is nice.

There are way too many people in the east. I want to be west of the front range. CO, ID, WY, MT, UT, NV, OR, WA, AK or NorCal.
xCon

Social climber
909
Jul 15, 2018 - 08:08am PT
the US navy is up in arms about rising sea level
their gonna be out of ports long before replacements are constructed at this rate

commercial shipping is in the same boat...

food
survival...
Messages 2421 - 2440 of total 2440 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
 
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks


Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Recent Route Beta