Climate Change: Why aren't more people concerned about it?

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August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Jul 11, 2018 - 11:01pm PT
And why would you expect them to be even handed, we'll defined and universal?

How is that any more politically likely than a well run tax scheme?


Picking winners and losers is really problematic even by wonkish experts. When it is done by politicians who are bought by lobbyists, good luck with that...

I would be fine with a law that said that all money raised by such tax had to be evenly distributed back to US citizens and have the courts actually enforce that.

The reality is that I expect our political institutions to do jack and squat so we are only talking hypotheticals anyway.
Dingus Milktoast

Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
Jul 12, 2018 - 07:14am PT
The reality is that I expect our political institutions to do jack and squat so we are only talking hypotheticals anyway.

Bam.

DMT
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Jul 12, 2018 - 01:41pm PT
A carbon fee should never be mentioned without calling it revenue neutral.
RNCT = revenue neutral carbon tax or RNCF = revenue neutral carbon fee.
Every dime it takes in would be paid back by lowering income taxes.
So the revenue net is zero. There is no new tax, it's a tax shift from low carbon users to high carbon users, to pay for external costs.

This carbon fee is not to be confused with fuel taxes for highway & transportation maintenance. That fuel tax needs to be increased just to pay for highways since the federal tax has not been increased in 30 years.

Mandates are usually easy to screw up with loopholes, exceptions, and massive bureaucracy. They amount to the government picking winners and losers instead of the market responding to proper incentives. Take the last act of Scott pruitt for instance, which was to say the EPA will allow an unlimited number of brand new trucks to be built with ancient polluting diesel engines. They actually pollute more than the total pollution caused by the VW diesel cheating.

Another example: energy storage. California decreed that pumped hydro does not count as green energy. but they do count batteries, which are far more expensive. This happens with mandates because insiders lobby for their pet projects.
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Jul 14, 2018 - 06:42am PT
Iceberg 6 kilometers long breaks off from Greenland glacier

https://www.ctvnews.ca/sci-tech/iceberg-6-kilometres-long-breaks-off-from-greenland-glacier-1.4011691
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Jul 14, 2018 - 11:00am PT
^^^

I still hope that someday the world will take serious steps to address the problem. As opposed to the rather mild steps we've seen so far.

But it is not my expectation.

As far as a carbon tax:

The market would respond far more efficiently to a carbon tax than to mandates. A carbon tax could certainly be revenue neutral. Either because other taxes were lowered or because you directly returned the money raised to the population as I suggested earlier.

There are real concerns about a carbon tax. If you increased a CO2 tax from say $10/ton up to $1000+/ton in 30 or 40 years. At the beginning it wouldn't raise much money, the tax would be too low. There would be a period where it would be raising a huge amount of money as the tax was high enough to bite but the market was still in the process of decarbonizing. Once the tax gets really high and the market has almost entirely shifted away from CO2 generating activities, the revenue would plummet. If you had cut taxes during the high carbon revenue years, you would then have the politically difficult issue of raising them back again.

That is why I think it may be better to take the amount of carbon tax raised each quarter, divide it by the population and return it to the people. Yes, the people will take a hit when the carbon revenue dwindles, but that is more politically manageable than trying to raise taxes back.

But I literally expect Miami to be underwater before any of this happens.
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Jul 14, 2018 - 06:46pm PT

Rising ocean waters from global warming could cost trillions of dollars

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2018/jul/12/rising-ocean-waters-from-global-warming-could-cost-trillions-of-dollars?CMP=share_btn_tw
SomebodyAnybody

Big Wall climber
Torrance
Jul 15, 2018 - 07:47am PT
A mail carrier died of heat stroke on her route in Woodland Hills during that heatwave. It wasn't a walking route, but it was 117 and the mail trucks don't have AC.

https://www.sacbee.com/news/state/california/article214616420.html

Go East, old man.

Virginia is nice.

There are way too many people in the east. I want to be west of the front range. CO, ID, WY, MT, UT, NV, OR, WA, AK or NorCal.
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Jul 18, 2018 - 06:50pm PT
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/16/opinion/climate-change-parenting.html

https://sohopress.com/books/were-doomed-now-what/
Lituya

Mountain climber
Jul 18, 2018 - 08:13pm PT
A mail carrier died of heat stroke on her route in Woodland Hills during that heatwave. It wasn't a walking route, but it was 117 and the mail trucks don't have AC.

Ironic, since AC is a big part of the problem.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jul 20, 2018 - 01:20am PT
Coal chutes for every apt in Stockholm. Musta been nice to breathe there in the winter...

Credit: Reilly
AntiChrist

Gym climber
Urth
Jul 20, 2018 - 12:02pm PT
Coal is great...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Smog_of_London
PIZZAMAN

Trad climber
Van Nuys, Ca.
Jul 20, 2018 - 06:44pm PT
Why????? Because Yosemite Valley used to be filled with glaciers and they disappeared long before the invention of the internal combustion engine.
PIZZAMAN

Trad climber
Van Nuys, Ca.
Jul 20, 2018 - 06:50pm PT
And some of us will survive. What happens if the Yellowstone Caldera goes or an asteroid hits the planet......
AP

Trad climber
Calgary
Jul 20, 2018 - 07:04pm PT
The time scale is different. Volcano or asteroid will happen on a geological time scale. 2100 is a human time scale.
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Jul 20, 2018 - 09:34pm PT
And some of us will survive.
I expect the survivors will have no smart phones, no cars, no airplanes, no electricity, no fridges, no antibiotics, no showers, no birth control, no climbing, no asteroid defense.
They might have bicycles, horses, shoes, farms, hoes, strict religion.
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Jul 21, 2018 - 01:23pm PT
the last time co2 levels were at todays level sea level was 60 feet higher,
we are guaranteed 3.5'c increase in temperature by 2100
humans have never lived in a world this hot

xcon, I'm with you on this.

To the extent that most people focus on climate change at all, it is in the context of the year 2100. It's not like climate change is going to stop at that point in time. The amount of baked in sea level rise is huge. Its not clear how much will happen by 2100 but it will be 50+ feet on a time scale of centuries.

People freak out about what might happen to stored nuclear waste tens of thousands of years into the future, but won't lift their gaze above the year 2100 for climate change.

And I agree with the comments above. I don't think it very likely that climate change would make humans extinct. But it could certainly knock civilization back to medieval times.
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Jul 22, 2018 - 06:04pm PT

As climate scientist Ben Santer, who linked the burning of fossil fuels to the intense heat waves, told the Los Angeles Times this week, “This isn’t a big scientific surprise.”


http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/07/a-global-heat-wave-has-set-the-arctic-circle-on-fire.html
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Jul 26, 2018 - 07:51pm PT

Climate change is here, and the world is burning

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-climate-change-is-here-and-the-world-is-burning/

The Globe And Mail is extremely pro business & is not pro environment.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jul 26, 2018 - 07:56pm PT
Alarmist propaganda?

Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Jul 26, 2018 - 07:57pm PT
Charleston Gazette editorial: The existential threat of climate change

https://www.wvgazettemail.com/opinion/gazette_opinion/editorial/gazette-editorial-the-existential-threat-of-climate-change/article_e4dfbf45-f04e-5253-a07b-33da7a676c2b.html


It's too late. Morons are in charge of the country. I honestly feel bad for my nieces and nephews. All I can do is be glad that I'll be dead before it gets really bad.

a comment from the above
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