Climate Change: Why aren't more people concerned about it?

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Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Feb 12, 2018 - 09:23pm PT
Arctic Sea Ice Extent at Record Lows as Winter Temperatures Soar

https://robertscribbler.com/2018/02/12/arctic-sea-ice-extent-at-record-lows-as-winter-temperatures-soar/

Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Feb 12, 2018 - 09:48pm PT
Have you noticed this underlying sense of tense excitement amongst us as we discuss the end of the world as we know it?

All this earnest angst makes me feel like a thirteen year old on the cusp of his first solo orgasm.

Or it could just be a retro REM song -



Do any of you really believe that "we" can fix this self-made mess?

The earth is just going to shake us off like a bad case of the fleas - your AI, VR and whatever be damned.

Nice violin there Nero.
Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Feb 13, 2018 - 08:27am PT
Sea level rise is accelerating.


http://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/early/2018/02/06/1717312115.full.pdf


Significance

Satellite altimetry has shown that global mean sea level has been rising at a rate of ∼3 ± 0.4 mm/y since 1993. Using the altimeter record coupled with careful consideration of interannual and decadal variability as well as potential instrument errors, we show that this rate is accelerating at 0.084 ± 0.025 mm/y2, which agrees well with climate model projections. If sea level continues to change at this rate and acceleration, sea-level rise by 2100 (∼65 cm) will be more than double the amount if the rate was constant at 3 mm/y.
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Feb 13, 2018 - 11:33am PT
"The earth is just going to shake us off like a bad case of the fleas"

That's right. The "earth" doesn't care about humans any more than it did about the passenger pigeon. The "earth" doesn't care about the earth. Eventually it will burn up in the supernova.

There will be massive impacts on hundreds of millions of people, and everyone will be affected to some degree. This has already begun; however it will mostly occur gradually over the next 30-100 years. So let's all just stick our heads in the sand, and not worry about anyone else. Just like the federal debt. party on Galt!
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Feb 13, 2018 - 11:43am PT
Do any of you really believe that "we" can fix this self-made mess?

My analogy is that climate change is like the early stages of emphysema.

Is the patient going to cold turkey quite smoking. Probably not. But any reduction in the number of cigarettes a day gives the patient a better future than business as usual.
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Feb 13, 2018 - 12:41pm PT
Actual facts about growth in renewables.

https://www.iea.org/publications/renewables2017/

The growth in renewable power will be twice as large as gas and coal combined over the next five years, the IEA said. While that will take renewables’ share of electricity generation from 24% last year to 30% in 2022, coal will still be the biggest source of power.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/oct/04/solar-power-renewables-international-energy-agency

http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/articles/2018/01/solar-grabs-half-of-global-renewables-investment-in-2017-reaching-161-billion.html

https://www.nationofchange.org/2017/10/05/china-showing-world-renewable-energy-dominance-looks-like-says-new-iea-report/

India targets
https://www.wri.org/sites/default/files/uploads/India_Energy_Map_v4-03.png


Even in the USA, from 2010 to 2016, in quadrillion BTUs,
solar went from .08 to .61
wind went from .88 to 2.14
These are massive percentage increases, especially considering most areas continue to be highly pro-fossil fuels in their policies.

https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/images/charts/energy_consumption_by_source_large.jpg
https://www.eia.gov/renewable/annual/preliminary/images/figure_1.jpg

https://flowcharts.llnl.gov/content/energy/energy_archive/energy_flow_2010/LLNLUSEnergy2010.pdf

https://www.llnl.gov/news/americans-used-more-clean-energy-2016

Of course, Actual growth in renewables will continue to lag behind where it should be wherever there is no proper carbon tax (revenue neutral).
Any stall in USA renewable energy growth is because the no-nothings are in charge in most areas. That says nothing about what could be done if the idiots were not running the circus. Additionally, since the cost of wind and solar has already dropped dramatically, some leveling off in dollars does not indicate any leveling off in kilowatt hours.

On 8 Jan 2018, the US federal energy regulatory commission rejected a plan by the Donald Trump-led US administration to provide subsidies for coal-fired and nuclear power plants. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/jan/08/donald-trump-coal-industry-plan-rejected-rick-perry

California is an example of what is possible in renewable energy growth.

"California is on track to reach 50% of their renewable energy goal ten years ahead of schedule, according to the California Public Utilities Commission RPS (Renewable Portfolio Standard) report, released back in November. The state’s primary utilities have already met (or are about to exceed) their renewable energy target of 33% by 2020 and is on track to hit their 2030 goal of 50% by 2020, far surpassing any other state in the union.

The big three utilities- Pacific Gas and Electric Co. (PG&E), Southern California Edison (SCE), and San Diego Gas & Electric Co. (SDG&E), all surpassed the 25% requirement to meet the 2016 goal. The breakdown is as follows:
-PG&E accounted for 32.9% of renewable energy produced electricity.
-SCE accounted for 28.2% of renewable energy produced electricity.
-SDG&E accounted for the highest with 43.2% of renewable energy produced electricity.

According to the RPS, all three companies predict they will meet or exceed their 2020 compliance goals before the target date, which is impressive considering the RPS program has also reduced the cost of renewables with solar falling 77% (from 2008 to 2016) and wind dropping by 47% (from 2007 to 2015). The state began their endeavor to ‘go green,’ requiring energy utilities to increase their use of renewables back in 2002. Current Governor Brown and former Governator Schwarzenegger ramped-up the initiative for cleaner energy over time, which led to the RPS program, with Brown touting California’s ability to “boost renewable power and lower emissions while growing it’s economy,” according to a November article by San Francisco Chronicle.

That being said, California’s emissions have been declining since 2008 and are expected to continue over the next few decades before the state’s electrical production comes from 100% renewable energy by 2045.

https://www.element14.com/community/groups/power-management/blog/2018/02/13/california-on-track-to-meet-green-energy-goals-a-decade-early

WBraun

climber
Feb 13, 2018 - 12:49pm PT
Do any of you really believe that "we" can fix this self-made mess?

Everything can be fixed ultimately.

But only when you behave.

In this day and age, 90% do not behave and thus suffer the effects of those consequences.

We are NOT the owners of this planet, we are not even the owners of our own material bodies.

We are all basically operating in illusion.

Even the so-called scientists .......
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Feb 15, 2018 - 03:55pm PT
First ship crosses Arctic in winter without an icebreaker as global warming causes ice sheets to melt

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/arctic-sea-route-first-ship-no-icebreaker-winter-icebergs-ice-shelf-teekay-russia-a8208596.html

Robert L

climber
Feb 15, 2018 - 04:17pm PT
My guess is that the petroleum companies have successfully shut us up about it because the dumbasses that believe that it isn't true wear us out with their idiotic reasoning about why it isn't true.

1. It's cheaper for China and India to build new engineering solutions, than for the U.S. and Europe to retrofit their own old ones. That's the underlying reasoning that the U.S. and other countries are taking to the internatiobal accord. Trump's puppet masters likely argue that what is fair should be informed by who would have to pay more, and who would benefit more so.

2 U.S. and European Citizens don't want to pay more for 'renewable' energy, and don't want to substitute their animal product intake for substitutes.

3. People who do not support climate change, are no less 'smarter at reasoning' than many who do acknowledge climate change.

4. Citizen consensus requires a move towards shifting people's priorities. Doubtful this will be realised in time. The solution is for decisions to be made by the technocrats and enforced by government, irrespective of the voting public's mood.
Robert L

climber
Feb 15, 2018 - 04:22pm PT
My analogy is that climate change is like the early stages of emphysema.

Is the patient going to cold turkey quite smoking. Probably not. But any reduction in the number of cigarettes a day gives the patient a better future than business as usual.

Law of diminishing returns, and how secondary effects impact body systems, suggest that reducing (instead of ceasing) smoking, will have minimal positive impact on one's quality of life. Moreover, a half-assed effort will probably increase cognitive dissonance.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Feb 15, 2018 - 04:56pm PT
Just want to pull one more Ron Anderson,We have had the third thaw this winter. We have little snowpack and it was 62 degrees today.


The third month in a row with an over 60 degree day.

Unlike Ron, I know weather is not climate.

Geology degree,but listen to Sketch.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Feb 15, 2018 - 04:58pm PT
Nobody Cares
Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Feb 15, 2018 - 05:49pm PT
Nobody Cares


There was this scene in the movie Serenity where they went to the planet of Miranda where the government {newworld(dis)order} will love this and found that the government had gassed the populace with something to supposedly make them happier and more easygoing with their fellow humans. But it actually made them so passive so that they didn't care about anything at all so that they just lay down and died--except for a very small minority called "Reavers" who became hyper-agressive.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Feb 15, 2018 - 07:21pm PT
Wilbeer... Assuming you're in NY...? I thought you guys were getting buried..? Same scenario out west here...plenty of high 50 days and 20% of normal on snow...The big high pressure of not long ago is back...If not for snow making there would be limited skiing...
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Feb 16, 2018 - 06:14am PT
Rj,we have had a bunch but ,none of it has stuck around long at all.

I have never seen such melt offs. The Dacks above 3k have a bit left ,but if warm rains continue,it will all be gone ,quickly.

Middle of February and more rain than snow.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Feb 16, 2018 - 06:41am PT
Ice climbing in this region is really hit or miss now. Even 10-20 years ago it was generally great and very consistent.

More reason to get into mixed stuff!
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Feb 17, 2018 - 07:31am PT
why Americans distrust the media

http://hoaxes.org/archive/permalink/the_great_moon_hoax

August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Feb 17, 2018 - 01:35pm PT
My analogy is that climate change is like the early stages of emphysema.

Is the patient going to cold turkey quite smoking. Probably not. But any reduction in the number of cigarettes a day gives the patient a better future than business as usual.


Law of diminishing returns, and how secondary effects impact body systems, suggest that reducing (instead of ceasing) smoking, will have minimal positive impact on one's quality of life. Moreover, a half-assed effort will probably increase cognitive dissonance.

I'm not sure we can increase the level of cognitive dissonance above what we already have. A few half-assed measures certainly aren't going to save us from ourselves.

But, for instance, if global warming had never been an issue, the amount of electricity from coal, both now and into the future, would have been significantly higher. Solar and wind have gotten to the point where they can compete with coal in some markets even without a subsidy or a CO2 tax on coal. But that would not have happened near as quickly without the subsidies they did get.

The life expectancy of a coal plant is measured in decades. By not building anymore, we have bought a little more time without killing our economy or causing every single job to move to China, like some would have had you believe.

But do I think we are still going to smoke ourselves to death. Probably.

Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Feb 17, 2018 - 07:39pm PT
Population extinctions today are orders of magnitude more frequent than species extinctions. Population extinctions, however, are a prelude to species extinctions, so Earth’s sixth mass extinction episode has proceeded further than most assume. The massive loss of populations is already damaging the services ecosystems provide to civilization. When considering this frightening assault on the foundations of human civilization, one must never forget that Earth’s capacity to support life, including human life, has been shaped by life itself (47). When public mention is made of the extinction crisis, it usually focuses on a few animal species (hundreds out of millions) known to have gone extinct, and projecting many more extinctions in the future. But a glance at our maps presents a much more realistic picture: they suggest that as much as 50% of the number of animal individuals that once shared Earth with us are already gone, as are billions of populations. Furthermore, our analysis is conservative, given the increasing trajectories of the drivers of extinction and their synergistic effects. Future losses easily may amount to a further rapid defaunation of the globe and comparable losses in the diversity of plants (36), including the local (and eventually global) defaunation-driven coextinction of plants (3, 20). The likelihood of this rapid defaunation lies in the proximate causes of population extinctions: habitat conversion, climate disruption, overexploitation, toxification, species invasions, disease, and (potentially) large-scale nuclear war—all tied to one another in complex patterns and usually reinforcing each other’s impacts. Much less frequently mentioned are, however, the ultimate drivers of those immediate causes of biotic destruction, namely, human overpopulation and continued population growth, and overconsumption, especially by the rich. These drivers, all of which trace to the fiction that perpetual growth can occur on a finite planet, are themselves increasing rapidly. Thus, we emphasize that the sixth mass extinction is already here and the window for effective action is very short, probably two or three decades at most (11, 48). All signs point to ever more powerful assaults on biodiversity in the next two decades, painting a dismal picture of the future of life, including human life.

http://www.pnas.org/content/114/30/E6089

https://www.cnn.com/2017/07/11/world/sutter-mass-extinction-ceballos-study/index.html
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Feb 17, 2018 - 07:41pm PT
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