Climate Change: Why aren't more people concerned about it?

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EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jul 26, 2018 - 07:56pm PT
Alarmist propaganda?

[Click to View YouTube Video]
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Jul 27, 2018 - 02:15pm PT
Record-breaking heat is also wreaking havoc in California, where the wildfire season is already worse than usual

I don't think it is worse than"usual". This is the new normal.

Now I would agree that it is worse than the past. But that past is gone and it aint coming back.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jul 27, 2018 - 06:06pm PT
Become strict vegetarians or quit wringing your hands.

The meat industry is an environmental killer on countless levels, not the least of which is its effect on greenhouse gasses.

Here's a few scholarly articles on that subject. There are countless more.

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/animal/article/mitigating-climate-change-the-role-of-domestic-livestock/4937AEA227D69068AA571905BBF433C5

https://www.cabdirect.org/cabdirect/abstract/20093312389

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10584-014-1104-5

From the above....

Not taking the rapid conversion of rain forests into cattle ranches into account, at least 18% of global greenhouse gas emissions are directly attributable to pigs, chickens, and cattle raised for human consumption. And, "We conclude that reduced ruminant meat and dairy consumption will be indispensable for reaching the 2 °C target with a high probability, unless unprecedented advances in technology take place."

So, if you're seriously wringing your hands, then put your diet where your mouth is. You won't get MANY people on board with draconian economically-questionable carbon "reduction" legislation until nationally we have a SERIOUS dialog about vegetarianism.

Seriously, if you're not going to immediately become a vegetarian, then you have nothing to complain about, because your version of GHG "reduction" is then NOTHING more than: "FORCE FIX what doesn't really affect me, even if you have to penalize people (not me, of course) to FIX 'the problem.'"

And, since you are NOT going to become a vegetarian due to GHG emissions, then you should contemplate the game-theory behind that choice and realize that it's writ large.

In short, quit complaining and revel in the world in which you die and your kids are left with insanely massive debt, an utterly broken political system, and a hot world with rising sea levels. It's soooo important to be staunchly partisan, so that we can ensure that our kids inherit disaster with "the other party" to blame!
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jul 27, 2018 - 06:18pm PT
MB, don’t fergit the millions of useless stop signs and traffic lights that our enlightened leaders
built while Europe was building roundabouts. All that idling, stopping, and jack rabbit starting
needlessly burns up hundreds of thousands of barrels of oil per day.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jul 27, 2018 - 06:36pm PT
^^^ Absolutely!

But, you know, carbon taxes and Cap and Trade will fix everything. Just give 'em a chance.

Edit: At least there should be a Federal law (right?) requiring all stop lights to be timed/synchronized to reduce stops on primary arteries. Here in Westminster, it's insane how often main arteries are brought to a stop in order to let one guy turn (right!) from a tiny side-street. Just try driving on 120th or Sheridan and see what I mean.

"Small" changes like that can have very large effects, not to mention the huge positive of reducing traffic congestion. But nooooo. It's either economic sanctions or "we're not taking the problem seriously."

So, become a vegetarian, or you're not taking the problem seriously.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jul 27, 2018 - 06:51pm PT
And if we adopted European standards of driver licensing, financial accountability, and auto
maintenance standards I bet that would take 40% of the cars off our roads in one swell foop!
But it’ll never happen cause the Democrats would scream DESCRIMINATION!
Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Jul 27, 2018 - 06:53pm PT
So I’m confused.

Mad says we should all individually (like a herd of Libertarians?) recognize the destructiveness of the meat industry and immediately become vegetarians if we are truly serious about climate change.

But then he cheers Reilly’s observation that enlightened (evil?) GOVERNMENT policies could have a positive impact.

Please advise.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jul 27, 2018 - 07:03pm PT
It's true that you're confused, Lennox. My point was neither of the "options" you have me saying.

My point is that purveyors of climate change hand-wringing won't lift a baby finger of their own to do what they could individually do to contribute to genuine solutions. I guess you missed my game-theory line.

And the expectation that government(s) is/are going to solve the problem misses that game-theory point on a grand scale. Always has; always will.

I advocate individual and local commitments. As overlapping spheres of influence occur, sweeping social changes take place organically with zero need of federal intervention.

But if you don't believe that, and you insist on the necessity of quick federal intervention, then AT LEAST have the decency to advocate EFFECTIVE federal intervention.

Wouldn't you rather live in a city that had synchronized lights than what the greater Denver metro area (and most US cities) has? Wouldn't you rather live in a city that provided countless excellent vegetarian restaurants rather than countless excellent steakhouses?

Ohhh... that last question is where the rubber meets the road regarding what people "should" do to "solve the problem."
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jul 27, 2018 - 07:04pm PT
xCon types drunkenly again.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Jul 27, 2018 - 07:12pm PT
Fed intervention is not going to happen thanks to corporate intervention ( bribes , campaign funding , trump tweet storms ) The American masses have no say in political outcomes...The 1% are calling the shots...Wake up droolers...
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jul 27, 2018 - 07:40pm PT
^^^ And there we have proof positive of why hand-wringing is all that such threads will ever amount to.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jul 27, 2018 - 07:53pm PT
xCon, y’all are constantly extolling the socialist paradises of Europe but when I actually explain to you what they are doing over there yer like all outraged. You better put on yer consistency knickers cause the ones yer wearing are getting all bunched up by yer confusion. At least poor people over there realize driving is a privilege.
Jorroh

climber
Jul 28, 2018 - 06:28am PT
'"My point is that purveyors of climate change hand-wringing won't lift a baby finger of their own to do what they could individually do to contribute to genuine solutions"

Addressing climate change requires collective action.

The "point" you are making above is completely idiotic.

If you want a "genuine solution" then maybe you shouldn't be supporting a political party that spent decades denying that climate change was even happening.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jul 28, 2018 - 08:03am PT
An LA Times article today notes a study by Bruce Schaller, author of “Unsustainable”, that the
rise of Lyft and Uber have resulted in significant increases in congestion (read pollution) in
major cities.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jul 28, 2018 - 12:41pm PT
Bullshit

Right back atcha.

Neener, neener, neener.

Stupid game, isn't it?

And I don't "support a party." If you knew ANYTHING about my posting history or could read with comprehension what I actually just posted in this very thread, you'd discover that I vehemently oppose BOTH of these sh|tty parties and virtually EVERYTHING they BOTH stand for.

If change doesn't occur organically, then you can kiss your change goodbye.
Jorroh

climber
Jul 28, 2018 - 01:08pm PT
'"And I don't "support a party"

Yes, that would be why you're continually spouting republican talking points.
Your blabber about health care, climate change and just about anything else is pure republican orthodoxy.

It's a given that none of us agree 100% with the positions of any political party, but the fact that you have to hide behind statements like the above is pretty spineless.


spectreman

Trad climber
Jul 28, 2018 - 01:26pm PT
Listening to anyone in the isolated heartland of America is for fools.

How you can live in a place that has minimal diversity, has no effect from rising sea levels or significant air pollution and think you know the wider problems of the world is inconceivable to me?

Why should residents of rural America know anything outside of their county that has minimal contact with the outside world?

Ever wonder why people who live in large cities, particularly in coastal ones with large immigrant populations and thousands of people speaking a myriad of languages all around them are tolerant of (peaceful) people different than themselves?

And the people all gunned up in bunkers in Oklahoma hate fureners and want to tell the people that know something how to run the country....


At least you're not a bigot or anything. (eye roll) Sheesh, listen to yourself.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jul 28, 2018 - 02:37pm PT
Your blabber about health care, climate change and just about anything else is pure republican orthodoxy.

It's a given that none of us agree 100% with the positions of any political party, but the fact that you have to hide behind statements like the above is pretty spineless.

How about some examples of these supposed "Republican talking points"?

LOL

And if you think that "having a spine" means selecting one of these pathetic, bought-and-paid-for parties and agreeing 98% with it, you have totally drunk the Kool-Aid poured out by that cluster-fornication.

You hear me denying climate change?

You hear me supporting the MIC and wanting to increase military spending?

You hear me decrying corporate regulation?

The list goes on and on.

About the only "Republican" position you EVER hear me take is saying that I haven't yet heard the "gun control" proposal that would have a measurable effect on gun-violence. That said, you HAVE heard me repeatedly offer compromise positions, such as an acceptance of universal background checks, even though I don't think that it would have a measurable effect.

In short, I'm about as far from "right" as I am from "left," and you are a VERY superficial thinker to box-and-package a person like me just so that you can justify being sweepingly dismissive.

I've come to learn from these threads and from discussions with self-proclaimed liberals that the liberal mindset regarding "discussion" is a zero-sum game. There are people that agree 90+% with you, and all the rest are THE ENEMY!

That's just retarded! Get a brain and start actually considering nuanced perspectives held by nuanced thinkers that you CAN'T neatly box-and-package (and thereby instantly dismiss as THE ENEMY).

Bottom line is that liberals have proposed NO viable solutions to climate change. If you think that the likes of Cap and Trade are going to change the world for the better, well, I've got some history of totalitarianism for you.

First of all, if you can't change your own lifestyle, so as to LIVE what you CLAIM to believe, then you can't expect anybody else to drink from the cup you're offering!

Become a vegetarian, to start, and then you'll have started to put your lifestyle where your mouth is. Until then, just stop wringing your hands about climate change and demanding that the feds FORCE people to do the "other things" that don't affect you.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Jul 28, 2018 - 08:55pm PT
weird,

the solution to climate change is stop venting CO2 into the atmosphere at the rates we have been doing in the 20th century.

in fact, we have to decrease those rates.

I don't know if that is a liberal or a conservative solution. That is the solution.

Obviously, implementing that solution is going to be very tough. But to say there is no solution is ludicrous.

madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jul 28, 2018 - 10:14pm PT
I don't know if that is a liberal or a conservative solution. That is the solution.

Obviously, implementing that solution is going to be very tough. But to say there is no solution is ludicrous.

You're not proposing a "solution." You're stating the target, what we need to accomplish to "solve" the "problem" of climate change.

The "solution" is necessarily HOW you achieve that target.

You're saying something akin to "you solve the problem of mass murder by stopping people from firing bullets into crowds." But that's not the "solution." You've then just pushed the "solution" question back to what the real solution question is, which is: "How do you accomplish that?" Because if you can't answer that latter question, you haven't really offered a "solution" with your first "answer."

And there we have a mass of hand-wringing and zero-sum, blaming the other guy sorts of suggestions.
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