Climate Change: Why aren't more people concerned about it?

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EdwardT

Trad climber

Retired

Feb 22, 2018 - 10:54am PT

Lennox

climber

in the land of the blind

Feb 22, 2018 - 10:58am PT

Why are so many Americans afraid that Climate Change science is legit...

Probably because most don't want to live in the utopia portrayed in this video....

This really encapsulates the problem, though nwo is an extreme example.

People that deny anthropomorphic climate change do so not because they are necessarily anti-science, but because they cannot accept the implications of the science.

The implication that we will have to restrain the infinite growth that capitalism demands and to mitigate corporate externalities or else future generations will suffer catastrophic consequences is anathema to them, so they either deny that the earth is warming, or that humans are causing it, or they posit that a warming earth will be a new Eden, with some minor inconveniences.

Science for them is not a tool for understanding, but a cudgel to beat their opponents, so they go off searching and posting anything scandalacious or sciency-sounding.

Or in nwo's case searching and posting some crazy, paranoid, grand conspiracy nut-jobbery.

Lennox

climber

in the land of the blind

Feb 22, 2018 - 11:29am PT

What’s your point ET?

One chart shows world and U.S. total co2 emissions have been rising.

Your second chart shows per capita emissions in the U.S. have been declining.

So our increases in efficiency and cleaner fuels is not keeping up with the increased emissions related to population growth.

Anything else?

EdwardT

Trad climber

Retired

Feb 22, 2018 - 11:38am PT

From 2008

"We've already reached the dangerous level of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere," James Hansen, 67, director of NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies in New York, told AFP here.

"But there are ways to solve the problem" of heat-trapping greenhouse gases like carbon dioxide, which Hansen said has reached the "tipping point" of 385 parts per million.

One chart shows world and U.S. total co2 emissions have been rising.

The global chart shows US and European emissions have been relatively level since the 90s (actually, both have declined over the last decade), while China and the rest of the World have been steadily increasing output.

Unless we can get China and the rest of the World on board, any effort to reduce atmospheric CO2 levels will be in vain.

Lennox

climber

in the land of the blind

Feb 22, 2018 - 12:09pm PT

The global chart shows US and European emissions have been relatively level since the 90 (actually, both have declined over the last decade),

We have not been increasing at the rate of China, but if you look at that chart and see a decline or flatness you must have some kink in your neck that keeps your head tilted to the right.

But if you mean that U.S. emissions have slowed their increase, though still increasing, the way Obamacare slowed the still increasing, but less meteoric rise of healthcare costs, then okay . . .

Craig Fry

Trad climber

So Cal.

Feb 22, 2018 - 01:19pm PT

24 out of 13950 is 0.17 percent

So let's dispel this notion that only 97% of climate scientists agree

We can now use the figure 99.93% of the climate scientists agree on the cause of global warming
and the 0.17% are paid shills for the fossil fuel companies

EdwardT

Trad climber

Retired

Feb 22, 2018 - 01:32pm PT

We have not been increasing at the rate of China, but if you look at that chart and see a decline or flatness you must have some kink in your neck that keeps your head tilted to the right.

But if you mean that U.S. emissions have slowed their increase, though still increasing, the way Obamacare slowed the still increasing, but less meteoric rise of healthcare costs, then okay . . .

Oh my. Powell looked at 13,950 articles. Out of all those reams of scientific results, how many disputed the reality of climate change?

Twenty-four. Yup. Two dozen. Out of nearly 14,000.

Of those 13,950 articles, how many explicitly supported the consensus opinion on AGW?

What is the consensus opinion on AGW? Is it merely humans have contributed to warming? How about humans are responsible for half of the warming? Or maybe humans are responsible for most of the warming?

Lennox

climber

in the land of the blind

Feb 22, 2018 - 01:48pm PT

Your chart is for “energy related” co2.

EdwardT

Trad climber

Retired

Feb 22, 2018 - 01:51pm PT

but if you look at that chart and see a decline or flatness you must have some kink in your neck that keeps your head tilted to the right.

The graph you posted shows a decline over the last decade.

It's from a story titled - U.S. Greenhouse Gas Emissions Down 11.6% Since 2007

Lennox

climber

in the land of the blind

Feb 22, 2018 - 01:56pm PT

It shows a decline from 2008, but higher than early 90’s now.

And in case you forgot, we had a little thing called a recession.

https://www.vox.com/cards/obama-climate-plan/why-have-u-s-carbon-dioxide-emissions-fallen-since-2005

“Energy analysts don't expect these trends to last forever, though. As the economy continues to recover, emissions are projected to go back up — unless new policies are put in place.”

August West

Trad climber

Where the wind blows strange

Feb 22, 2018 - 02:45pm PT

People that deny anthropomorphic climate change do so not because they are necessarily anti-science, but because they cannot accept the implications of the science.
...

Science for them is not a tool for understanding, but a cudgel to beat their opponents, so they go off searching and posting anything scandalacious or sciency-sounding.

This happens but I think the identity politics is a bigger issue. During a TV interview I watched, a journalist was saying how, if he approached Midwestern farmers in a non-defensive manner, they would talk about how the timing of when to plant and harvest had changed because of the climate. They had clearly accepted that the climate had changed and they had changed their behavior because of it.

But if instead he just came out and asked them if climate change was a real thing, many times, their first response would be no. Their first response might as well have been, I watch Fox News and vote Trump.

EdwardT

Trad climber

Retired

Feb 22, 2018 - 05:44pm PT

if you look at that chart and see a decline or flatness you must have some kink in your neck that keeps your head tilted to the right.

It shows a decline from 2008

, but higher than early 90’s now.

Again, from the same story:

Overall, net emissions in 2015 were 11.6 percent below 2007 levels, according to the report. Except for 2012, when emissions were slightly lower, they have not been this low since 1993.

Edit: Here's a chart that illustrates my point about efforts without China's participation being in vain.

Splater

climber

Grey Matter

Feb 22, 2018 - 06:37pm PT

The USA as a whole has only begun to make a dent in GHG emissions. From the same 2015 article:

"(Environmental Protection Agency)
There are a couple of big reasons for this drop:
There was a massive recession in 2008, which meant less economic activity and less energy use. That drove US emissions down for a few years.
Americans have been driving less since 2005. They've also been buying more fuel-efficient cars and trucks in response to new fuel-economy rules  by the Obama administration.
Electric utilities have been using less coal to generate power, in part because a domestic boom in shale drilling has led to a glut of cleaner natural gas. (Burning natural gas for electricity produces roughly half the carbon-dioxide that burning coal does.) Cleaner wind power has also become a bigger source of electricity in recent years."

These changes do indicate what is possible if we continue to make policies that incentivize renewables, such as wind power incentives.

"Energy analysts don't expect these trends to last forever, though. As the economy continues to recover, emissions are projected to go back up — unless new policies are put in place."

For instance, trump would like to get rid of any such policies asap.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/16/climate/tax-bill-wind-solar.html

Additionally, a lot of the gain came from states like California that have a large push towards renewables. Many other states have explicitly rejected any change beyond the federal incentives, which are to be phased out.

Neither the feds nor the states have anything resembling a real carbon tax (revenue neutral). Only a tiny percent of vehicle travel is on toll roads. We refuse to even index the national fuel tax to inflation, so it hasn't gone up even nominally since 1993, and the tax doesn't even pay for road maintenance, much less any of the external costs of CO2 emissions.

In order to significantly reduce GHG emissions worldwide, the first world will have to take the lead, since our per capita emissions are the highest. Then we will push and force others to follow. This would happen in a series of international agreements, updated every few years.

EdwardT

Trad climber

Retired

Feb 23, 2018 - 07:09am PT

Malemute

Ice climber
great white north

Feb 23, 2018 - 06:28am PT

Evaluating the Need for Pipelines: A False Narrative for the Canadian Economy

https://www.cigionline.org/sites/default/files/documents/PB%20no115web.pdf

Jeff Rubin is one smart cookie. He made some nice change peddling gloom and doom back in '09. Who cares that he was flat out wrong. What matters are his latest foreboding predictions.

At some point, we will pass Peak Oil... and we'll be living in "interesting times".... skyrocketing gas prices. But it didn't happen with the last recovery, as Rubin predicted.

eeyonkee

Trad climber

Golden, CO

Feb 23, 2018 - 03:45pm PT

Malemute, MB2 has seen all of this stuff and has soberly calculated that human contribution is only around 50%. He's a philosopher after all. Facts are so pedestrian.

TomCochrane

Trad climber

Cascade Mountains and Monterey Bay

Feb 28, 2018 - 01:13am PT

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/capital-weather-gang/wp/2018/02/26/north-pole-surges-above-freezing-in-the-dead-of-winter-stunning-scientists/?utm_term=.0ccb964254e7

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber

Toquerville, Utah

Feb 28, 2018 - 03:59pm PT

Just picked a copy of The Third Industrial Revolution by Rifkin.

Some workable solutions, but requiring will and vision.

I worry about my nephew's kids, but fear a global Easter Island.

Splater

climber

Grey Matter

Mar 7, 2018 - 12:20am PT

Most employers in urban areas provide free parking for employees, which is often worth even more than $10 per day.

Ed Hartouni

Trad climber

Livermore, CA

Mar 7, 2018 - 08:49am PT

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/06/climate/college-republicans-carbon-tax.html

Ms. O’Brien said growing up the daughter of a biology teacher near the Tongass National Forest in
Alaska taught her a respect for both science and the environment. Ms. O’Brien said she has found
the lack of a coherent Republican Party position on climate change her single biggest challenge in
recruiting students to the conservative movement.

“The question I will frequently get is, ‘Why do you hate the planet? Why do you not like science?’”
she said. “We can’t be a party that’s entrenching itself in a dying planet.”