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randy88fj62
Trad climber
LA, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 24, 2016 - 09:53am PT
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Anyone have information regarding the rules and regulations for rock climbing in California designated "open spaces"?
A few google searches hasn't been helpful.
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splitclimber
climber
Sonoma County
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Oct 24, 2016 - 09:57am PT
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open spaces???
maybe be more specific - city park, county parks, county open space preserves, state parks, BLM, national forest, national park
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randy88fj62
Trad climber
LA, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 24, 2016 - 09:59am PT
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They are literally designated as, "open spaces" such as "Michael D. Antonovich Open Space".
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splitclimber
climber
Sonoma County
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Oct 24, 2016 - 10:02am PT
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I think most open space preserves are county owned but I would guess some cities also own open space lands.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Oct 24, 2016 - 10:07am PT
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So, are we taking bets on whether California Open Spaces are not that exactly?
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Reeotch
climber
4 Corners Area
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Oct 24, 2016 - 10:25am PT
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Ask forgiveness, not permission . . .
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Oct 24, 2016 - 10:33am PT
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Some of the open spaces in San Diego county are run by the county.
Most of those are actually BLM land, which the BLM doesn't want to manage, in fact would like to get rid of, and they lease it to the county for a nominal amount like a dollar per year.
Almost all of them have a management plan,
which you can get from the land manager.
Sometimes the management plan is not very recent,
and they may tell you it's being "revised,"
which can be a 20 year process.
Often it never mentions climbing,
but may attempt to regulate off-trail hiking.
For example the state parks dept. recently is trying to ban all off-trail use as the default rule for all reserves and preserves.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Oct 24, 2016 - 10:48am PT
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I agree with Reeotch. If you cannot find regulations with reasonable ease, assume that climbing is OK. I always wonder what would have happened had, say, Powell, Harding and Feuerer asked permission to climb the Nose. Instead of banning activity during the summer, would the NPS simply have put El Cap off limits year-round? The initial history of the Diamond and Devils Tower makes me think we would have had many more regulations. In fact, the resulting post-Nose ban on "trick" or "stunt" climbing (which they failed to define) in NPS jurisdictions tells me attitudes haven't changed over the decades.
A land manager's default response to a request for permission is usually denial because that option requires the least additional work for the manager. If I have a choice, I wouldn't give them the opportunity.
John
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chainsaw
Trad climber
CA
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Oct 24, 2016 - 10:50am PT
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For practical purposes, look up the history of the Auburn State Recreation Area (ASRA) Cave Valley Climbing Area. Open Spaces are typically managed by spoiled entitled govmint "workers" who view these spaces as private reserves for their own personal use to the exclusion of others. Hence the reason for the designation. The only purpose of the designation is to restrict use in the name of "preservation." At cave valley, the ASRA manager complained about our Access Fund group bringing one car in to empty the trash which only we collect the same day THEY brought sixty cars in for a private memorial service for one of their favorite employees. They bitched that WE were abusing the area as dust from their convoy made a cloud that obscured the entire horizon. They had twelve State Parks employees working overtime on a Sunday at taxpayers' expense to shuttle people up the access road for their private event, while those of us who have a concession CONTRACT to manage the areas climbing resource were ostracized and excluded. We were forbidden to even enter the area til they were done for the day. These old battle axe bitches are sacred cows who live off our tax dollars and view themselves as our masters. Fukk open space designation and FUUUUUKKKK land use regulations. Its a government monopoly of every aspect of everything to the exclusion of anyone who isnt one of "Them." Killing the Kings stag in Sherwood forest......punishable by death, or at least a parking ticket, tow fees and "administrative penalty." Maybe its time taxpayers gave "THEM" a penalty!
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 24, 2016 - 10:50am PT
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I get the feeling that the OP's query is less related to venturing into a new area for the first time, vs. some kind of confrontation he's recently had in an area he might have visited recently. Or something like this.
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randy88fj62
Trad climber
LA, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 24, 2016 - 10:58am PT
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I have never had a confrontation regarding outdoor use and climbing, canyoneering, or caving. I simply seek to find the initial rules that govern these areas. So far there is no inclusion for climbing that I can tell and I agree that it is easier to ask forgiveness than permission in some cases.
A side noted area I recently went to was Fish Canyon Narrows where old 1950's pitons were found. Since I was able to free climb it with cams I wasn't 'defacing rock'.
I love climbing areas that away from crowds and hard to get to. Texas Canyon in Santa Clarita is the opposite. It is overbolted and I hate the crowds there.
It seems the only legal way to climb in these areas is top roping where no permanent anchors are isntalled.
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chainsaw
Trad climber
CA
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Oct 24, 2016 - 11:24am PT
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Dont ever ask permission. Contact with these govmint people will be viewed as a threat. In California you risk arrest for even questioning their authority. They will appoint a commission and create a beaurocracy of agro soccer moms and stooges to ban whatever you are doing. In some ways, the beauty of climbing is that none of these fukks live in the natural or vertical world. Climbing flys in the face of their effort to control others' behavior. I think Im gonna free solo at Cave Valley in a clown suit next weekend.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Oct 24, 2016 - 12:59pm PT
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Open spaces are open, closed spaces are closed.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Oct 24, 2016 - 01:34pm PT
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It seems the only legal way to climb in these areas is top roping where no permanent anchors are isntalled.
Do not know where this statement came from. Just what do you mean "only legal way to climb" ....?????
I am sure nobody would care if you went and bolted in Fish Canyon... or at Texas canyon.
and chainsaw is 100% correct... do not go and ask if its OK.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Oct 24, 2016 - 01:35pm PT
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Open spaces are open, closed spaces are closed.
But are the complements of closed spaces open?
John
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Oct 24, 2016 - 02:07pm PT
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What do you think "Open space" in California means???...
Does that mean you are considering the bet and therefore want further definition of the words "Open" and "Closed"?
Seems like my initial suspicions might be on target....
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