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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Oct 13, 2016 - 12:41pm PT
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Lemme know if you need him. He specializes in 'verbal agreements'.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Oct 13, 2016 - 12:45pm PT
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Self help can be the most expensive, and using force to evict someone will get you sued.
Nothing wrong with verbal agreements, there is no written lease that makes evictions easier.
Nolo Press has a landlord tenant book
You can do an eviction your self but it is very technical. You might be able to find a paralegal to help you
On the bright side 90% of the evictions I get involved in are resolved with a three day notice (easy to do). I rarely have to file an eviction case in the court
Every state is different procedurelly. This might be a good start
http://www.courts.state.nh.us/district/landlord.htm
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Oct 13, 2016 - 01:27pm PT
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Every state is different procedurelly.
I was going to say the same thing. California has an expedited procedure for unlawful detainer, but I know nothing about New Hampshire civil procedure. Almost every state law I know, however makes it dangerous and potentially costly to try to proceed with non-judicial self-help.
One other word of caution. Most do-it-yourself books I've seen on landlord-tenant law have much greater detail on residential rather than commercial tenancies and evictions. There may be different rules for a lease of commercial premises.
John
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Oct 13, 2016 - 01:50pm PT
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Regarding "verbal agreements": I think you probably mean an "oral agreement."
Verbal basically means "in words" in this context, so a verbal agreement can be either oral or in writing. It's possible to have a non-verbal agreement (an implied-in-fact agreement).
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Oct 13, 2016 - 01:54pm PT
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My mom had to evict tenants in Idaho, and it took ~90 days and ended with sheriffs supervising their departure. Just be patient and accept the pain-in-the-assedness that it might be, and follow through the legal process.
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Oct 13, 2016 - 01:54pm PT
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What is the reason for wanting to evict him?
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Oct 13, 2016 - 01:55pm PT
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Let's see, your dad owns commercial real property but doesn't have money? Get your dad to hire an unlawful detainer attorney. They are often efficient and can be relatively inexpensive as a result.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Oct 13, 2016 - 02:08pm PT
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You've asked him to move out?
Stack his stuff outside the door and change the locks.
And if Reilly can't get you in touch with Vinnie, I know some vatos in Wilmas who'll do about anything for $25.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Oct 13, 2016 - 02:21pm PT
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Let's see, your dad owns commercial real property but doesn't have money? Get your dad to hire an unlawful detainer attorney. They are often efficient and can be relatively inexpensive as a result. Ok, that's a reasonable train of thought, so I'll explain. When I was born, my grandparents owned a home in a quaint mill village in NH. Next door was a machine shop, zoned for commercial use only for the life of the business. Immediately adjacent to that building is the home that I grew up in. The machine shop was the hub, and remained in business for almost forty years. So, now, it's different. My parents split up and the machine shop went under. My parents rented the house that I grew up in to my brother and his friend. I lived in the apartment above the machine shop. My dad took ownership of the machine shop building because my grandma couldn't afford the taxes on it after her husband died. My mom moved in with her mother and my dad made a scrappy little apartment in the area where the machine shop used to be. Meanwhile, my brothers friend developed a love for working on Audis, and collected a great many in the yard. Two years later, my dad bailed and moved out to Boulder. The Audi guy took advantage of this by renting on an oral agreement the old machine shop. Dad and brother gone, Audi guy moves more cars onto the property. My dad needs to pay the IRS money from when he was in business for himself, and the good way to do that is to sell the old machine shop. That's what we are trying to accomplish, and Audi guy refuses to leave. The story is more complicated than that by quite a bit, but that's it in a nutshell.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
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Oct 13, 2016 - 02:24pm PT
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Like Fat Dad said, it can be quickly and efficiently done by an attorney. Absent that you will have to figure it out which will be a pain plus it's easy to screw up.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Oct 13, 2016 - 02:27pm PT
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The story is more complicated than that by quite a bit...
Wow.
Is it insured? Got a gas can?
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Oct 13, 2016 - 02:32pm PT
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There is generally less consumer protection in a commercial eviction, of course that varies from state to state. I looked at the link I posted above and it looks pretty easy to do the court filing yourself. Looks like a pretty quick process, as long as the tenant does not file a bankruptcy, that is a huge can of worms.
There is no difference between a verbal and oral contract. Both mean the same thing, the absence of a written contract/lease
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Oct 13, 2016 - 02:49pm PT
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There is no difference between a verbal and oral contract. Both mean the same thing, the absence of a written contract/lease
Only if you don't really know what you're talking about, then I suppose you may be right!
I went to law school before Wikipedia came into being, but I suppose it's as good a source as any for basic legal concepts . . .
An oral contract is a contract, the terms of which have been agreed by spoken communication. This is in contrast to a written contract, where the contract is a written document. There may be written, or other physical evidence, of an oral contract – for example where the parties write down what they have agreed – but the contract itself is not a written one.
In general, oral contracts are just as valid as written ones, but some jurisdictions either require a contract to be in writing in certain circumstances (for example where real property is being conveyed), or that a contract be evidenced in writing (although the contract itself may be oral). An example of the latter is the requirement that a contract of guarantee be evidenced in writing, which is found in the Statute of Frauds.
Similarly, the limitation period prescribed for an action may be shorter for an oral contract than it is for a written one.
The term verbal contract is sometimes incorrectly used as a synonym for oral contract. However, a verbal contract is one that is agreed to using words, either written or spoken, as opposed to an implied contract. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_contract
I admit to being a little pedantic here and don't really dispute that many people (including lawyers and judges, who should know better) use "verbal contract" to mean "oral contract." It's not a big deal, but I'm not sure why someone would encourage a layperson who seems at least slightly interested in learning something about the law to use poor terminology.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Oct 13, 2016 - 02:57pm PT
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So sell it with the Audi guy there. It's a disclosure issue for the buyer, but they may see it as a plus since the property comes with a tenant.
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couchmaster
climber
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Oct 13, 2016 - 03:05pm PT
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What state Brandon, it matters a lot? Learn the laws of your state and follow them exactly. In my state it's easy to do without an attorney. Fast as well. Here's my advice, treat this person as least as good as you'd like to be treated if not better. You are doing that for yourself, not for the renter.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Oct 13, 2016 - 03:10pm PT
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I admit to being a little pedantic
a little?
The guy is trying to boot a tenant, he is not studying for the bar exam
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Oct 13, 2016 - 03:28pm PT
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I'm regretting posting this. My assumption was that I should hire a qualified lawyer in my area who is familiar with the local rules, but it would have been cool to hear something easy. Now there is a bunch of quasi personal info out there, I might delete this thread. Couchmaster.
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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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Oct 13, 2016 - 03:40pm PT
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Hope it works out for you quickly, Brandon.
Perhaps the real lawyers who are responding to your query can also comment on this: In the past when I was prepping some investment property I owned for sale, my accountant told me that any reasonable expense directly related to the preparation for sale could be applied as expense to the basis. So would this apply to any legal expenses Brandon incurred to boot the guy out?
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Oct 13, 2016 - 03:43pm PT
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Unless time is of the essence there is no reason not to take a stab at it, several websites lay it out pretty simply
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Oct 13, 2016 - 03:49pm PT
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That's a great question, Phylp, thanks!
I also have to take the guy to small claims court for $800 in back electric bills. Turns out, welding is expensive.
It's never easy. It'd be so simple to take the guy out back and beat the crap out of him, but, no.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Oct 13, 2016 - 03:57pm PT
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Brandon, you know we're here to help but without exact knowledge of NH law
we're not much use. More than likely you'll be lucky to just get him sent
packing without having to spend too much. Getting back rent or his electrical
bills is probably not gonna happen even if you get a judgement. As the
saying goes - you can't get blood out of a turnip, although Vinnie can!
Good luck and count yer blessings - I just put a call in to my attorney
at K&L Gates. Cha-ching!
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Oct 13, 2016 - 04:02pm PT
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phylp, i'd say your question is actually more of an accounting question than a legal question (or perhaps it's tax law, which seems a lot like accounting to me, but that's not my "day job" so maybe I'm wrong)
As the
saying goes - you can't get blood out of a turnip.
Well if any of the Audis have any value, perhaps a lien can be put on those?
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Oct 13, 2016 - 04:18pm PT
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Brandon, like I said, especially if you can get the guy to sign a lease, tenant occupied properties can sell more quickly than vacant ones. Most people who buy commercial properties do so because of the prospect of rental income. Even if the tenant is a pain, some buyers will simply offer a reduced price to deal with the costs of getting the person out. Talk to a realtor and see what they say.
Also, since it's only an oral month to month lease, it will probably be viewed as a tenancy at will. You could serve a 30 day notice to quit, but check with a UD attorney first.
Edit: As others have said, don't waste your time with a small claims matter. By the time you pay the filing fee, pay to have the guy served, take a half day off to sit in court, presuming you win (and he doesn't appeal--it's cheap and easy to appeal a small claims judgment), you still have to try to collect from the deadbeat. An exercise in pure frustration.
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sos
Trad climber
nyc
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Oct 13, 2016 - 04:41pm PT
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You should find an attorney and it should be one that does evictions on a regular basis. If the situation is as you've described, this is bread and butter work for a courthouse atty, you should be able to negotiate for a flat fee, and, if you find the right guy, it shouldn't cost you more than $300-500. (+ court filing fees, sheriff's fees for service of process and, if it goes that far, eviction)
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Oct 13, 2016 - 04:45pm PT
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Dont delete it.
I now know more about YOU which is pretty fun.
Good luck
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Oct 13, 2016 - 04:54pm PT
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Pull the power meter.
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John M
climber
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Oct 13, 2016 - 05:14pm PT
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Brandon.. if you want to leave the thread, you can delete most of the personal story. Its not necessary.
If your dad owns the property. Deed is in his name and not your grandmothers or grandfathers name, then all you need is.
Dad needs to sell property to pay bills.
Tenant with no written agreement, but verbal month to month agreement, won't move.
I believe the main things you have to understand is that it doesn't matter what form the agreement is in. The courts treat them the same. You have to go through the eviction process.
I agree with some suggestions about possibly leaving the tenant in place if they pay an appropriate rent. People looking for investment commercial property often want a renter. Talk to a realtor about that.
Hopefully your property boundaries are known and none of what you want to keep is on the property that you want to sell. Ie apartment, or driveway.
In other words, make certain you know what the property boundaries are. Don't assume things. Especially with properties that you have owned for so long. People forget where the real boundaries are and that can cause troubles.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Oct 13, 2016 - 05:19pm PT
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Is there a particular Audi that he values? Is his name Larry?
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Oct 13, 2016 - 06:11pm PT
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Firstly, you shoulda already turned off the water and power since they were in your name, eh? Next, gotta give him a written 72hr to vacate notice. Now, it is your property go put up no trespassing signs on all four sides of your property. Then go change the locks on the doors. When he shows up, call the police. While he's in jail take his shite to the dump. That's what I did, anyway. Haven't seen him since. Prolly still in jail, he had two $100,000 warrants. That verbal/oral agreement ain't much anyhow without a witness. Comes down to his word against yours. Don't leave it to the courts to figure out who's lying.
Either that, or take him on judge Judy and make some money from the experience;)
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steve s
Trad climber
eldo
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Oct 13, 2016 - 06:28pm PT
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Serve the 30 day notice . Since there is no written lease it is considered a month to month situation. He is in violation of your verbal agreement. Like others have said,since water and power are in your name and not his....turn them off. Also go in and start remodeling, especially the bathroom. Show up every day. He will tire of it soon enough. Hope you get rid of him.
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Oct 14, 2016 - 12:32am PT
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If you don't have a lease then they're just trespassing. Put his sh#t on the street. Change the locks. Call the Sheriff when you know he's coming.
Easy. Like a boss.
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