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shipoopoi
Big Wall climber
oakland
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Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 17, 2016 - 10:16pm PT
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yeah, cosgrove and i originally did this climb without any bolts. 4 anchor bolts and a bolt on the crux traverse were since added about 10 years ago. and then somebody hung these awful shiny chains off the lower anchor sometime between last year and this year...that was the final straw. today i removed the traverse bolt and anchor at the lip.
please do not add bolts to my routes or ugly chains, they are my art and i do not want my choreography to be ruined. there is a history and legacy to the way we put up routes they way we did. i'm not here to explain all that. just basically, sack up or move on. a natural anchor can easily be made on the slab past the lip with one inch cams.
steve schneider
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Stewart Johnson
Mountain climber
lake forest
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Sep 17, 2016 - 10:20pm PT
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Proper.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Sep 17, 2016 - 10:30pm PT
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Don't know the route, Steve. Is it still somewhat safe? Silly question, I know.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Sep 17, 2016 - 10:42pm PT
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A climber politely asked about adding an additional bolt before the first bolt of a route we did this summer. I suggested it would change the character of route and asked that it remain as is. They agreed to leave it so. This climber put up a route close by and of similar difficulty this weekend and protected the new route as they saw fit.
Want to add protection bolts, go put up your own route. Leave existing routes as is.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Sep 18, 2016 - 02:38am PT
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Is it still somewhat safe? Silly question, I know.
What makes you think it was 'safe' to begin with?
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Rankin
Social climber
Winston-Salem, North Carolina
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Sep 18, 2016 - 06:48am PT
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Such a cool route. Glad to hear it's being protected from consumer-driven, convenience-minded dweebs.
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couchmaster
climber
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Sep 18, 2016 - 07:08am PT
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Do what you gotta do man and thanks for the heads up. I sadly suspect that this thread will turn into another angry opinionated to "bolt or not to be" thread by people who have never seen the route, and as time goes on, "to bolt" will be the common answer.
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WBraun
climber
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Sep 18, 2016 - 07:13am PT
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Ed Barry flashes Cowabunga
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jeff constine
Trad climber
Ao Namao
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Sep 18, 2016 - 08:22am PT
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Don't mess with COZ POOPIE routes, Please.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Sep 18, 2016 - 09:23am PT
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that right there is one fine looking hand traverse. I understand why you'da wanted that ugly bolt-piercing cleaned up.
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klaus
climber
Slauson & Crenshaw
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Sep 18, 2016 - 09:47am PT
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Nice work Steve. Now go down to the Valley and remove all the Erik Sloan Pussy bolts.
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the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
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Sep 18, 2016 - 03:49pm PT
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Thanks for posting this information Steve. I'm not familiar with this route but it looks spectacular in the posted photo. It sucks that people following in the footsteps of you and Scott Cosgrove (RIP) have no respect for your ascent style.
It stinks of turds when people decide for themselves to retrobolt (add lead bolts to existing routes) without talking to the folks who put up the FA, or in some cases, widespread community consensus. I completely understand your feeling of a first ascent being a work of art, a snapshot in time. At the same time, I've made it known in public slide shows that on one particular variation to a route we established that a competent person is more than welcome to add one bolt in a particular section to protect future parties. (On a 5.10+ R/X pitch 10 of a 14 pitch route).
It is my understanding that there is a person or two based in the Yosemite area whom have taken it upon themselves to "fix" the first ascent of other persons. The argument is extremely weakt that a single person, no matter how long they have lived in the area or how long they have climbed in area, has the vision to take it upon themselves to bolt wherever they want. I believe we should honor the half century (or more) tradition of respecting the vision of the people who established the route. If someone wants bolts every 3 feet, go put up your own route.
Klaus it sucks what has happened to your proud routes in Yosemite. I was blessed to belay Fly'n Brian McCray (who loved your El Cap routes) on a first ascent of a 600' splitter beak crack. I understand that there is only be a tiny handful of persons in the entire world who have the cajones to repeat this route, I feel strongly we should leave routes in the style of the first ascent for future parties to attempt.
Retrobolters are thieves. They spit on the history of the sport and steal from future generations of climbers.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Sep 18, 2016 - 04:49pm PT
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Amen, and amen, Steve!
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the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
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Sep 18, 2016 - 05:20pm PT
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Fly'n Brian on the first ascent of the Dog and Pony Show, a Grade V route he rated A4. Brian placed some 60 pieces in this 180' first pitch, mostly homemade beaks, thin pitons and a few microcams. There are very few people in the world who are attracted to and have the talent to complete this sort of climbing. If any placement on this 180' pitch had failed when he placed the weight of his body on the piton, it is likely that most all of the protection on the pitch would fail, resulting in a ground fall (and serious injury / and or death).
My point is that if we as a community start allowing "caretakers" or "stewards" to start adding bolts to established routes, be it a 5.10 free climb in Yosemite or an A4 out in the middle of nowhere, the dreams of the first ascent party are changed as well as anyone who chooses to follow in that path, whatever it may be. If you want bolts every 3 feet, go put up your own routes.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Sep 18, 2016 - 06:31pm PT
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Steve,
When PTPP and I redrilled Bermuda Dunes, we made sure to ask you first. You were in your van near the El Cap bridge, and you seemed stoked that someone would take the time to handrill and replace about forty belay bolts with more modern gear.
Do you remember what the deal was with your putting a stray bolt out at the far right edge of this spot on Bermuda Dunes? The route went up the broken rock that has fixed ropes on it. I am wondering if you and John looked around the corner to the right, and decided that was not the way to go, or what.
I have always been curious if that might be a way to do an independent finish to Bermuda Dunes, instead of catching Salathe at Long Ledge for the last three or four pitches.
Bermuda Dunes is a very nice, direct line that has very little riveting.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Sep 18, 2016 - 07:26pm PT
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Don't stop now Steve!!
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Sep 19, 2016 - 09:12pm PT
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So many bolts, so little time...
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Sep 19, 2016 - 09:29pm PT
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Glad to hear it's being protected from consumer-driven, convenience-minded dweebs.
Yea me too. I feel much better knowing that the rocks are being preserved for us and our noble-minded purposes. But I just use a keep off the grass sign. Damn kids.
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