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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Aug 28, 2016 - 09:07am PT
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Why do you people continue to comment on things you know nothing about?
I've read quite a bit about the problems in Europe. Saying I know nothing about it is stupid.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Aug 28, 2016 - 09:08am PT
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Bluering, Randisi supports the establishment of Sharia law in les banlieues.
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Aug 28, 2016 - 02:53pm PT
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My favorite pair of shorts is a pair of board shorts made by North Face. We righteous geniuses designed them for, you know, skim boarding on alpine lakes.
We Americans are the pragmatic rational folks in this world, so we're entitled to throw some stones! And not the skipping kind.
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WBraun
climber
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Aug 28, 2016 - 03:31pm PT
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Only Americans will make their swim shorts out of boards .....
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7SacredPools
Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
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Aug 29, 2016 - 02:12pm PT
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Aug 29, 2016 - 03:48pm PT
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I hear ya, Jon, but this one was outright silly:
They're [France] a totalitarian, fascist (and misogynist) country now, no better than Saudi Arabia or Pakistan.
Really, dude? Do you know ANYTHING about what's going on in those countries? Jeez, chill.
BAd
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 29, 2016 - 04:03pm PT
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I had to turn my shirt inside out in high school once.
why?
Because it had a picture of a cartoon character picking his nose.
I said freedom of speech, they said do it or you're suspended.
I did. The rest of the day was a very light form of shaming.
culture was preserved and democracy did not fall.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Aug 29, 2016 - 04:17pm PT
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We could use a diagram showing religious beliefs according to tan lines.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Aug 29, 2016 - 04:58pm PT
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I am not that surprised by the cliches poured on this Forum although I had not been accustomed to that while I was working (10 years) in the US. I had always thought -- as climber mysefl-- climbers were not ready to provide the world with such weak press-like arguments ... Try hard and maybe you will understand what is going on in Europe but I could give you so many anecdotes about your inability to understand ... and remember that most of the troubles we have are not only coming from European history but also from what happened in Afghanistan et Irak, ana ask yourself why ... and how ...
I think most of us here have some concept of FREEDOM.
You cannot protect freedom, by restricting freedom.
( I will grant that there are some grey areas---should you be free to abuse people? )
The burkini ban was not enacted for safety, it was enacted to harass a particular group of religious women. That was cowardly bullying, which the French should be way, way above.
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Al Barkamps
Social climber
Red Stick
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Aug 29, 2016 - 07:46pm PT
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The burkini ban was never enacted for "safety".
It sought to ban the tacit state-acceptance of an ideology that is oppressive to women and contrary to the community values of the general population...like the ban on full-face veils. Accepting such a thing in France means that at some point, they'd have to accept other aspects of Muslim culture:
Unescorted women forbidden to leave their homes.
Genital mutilation of young girls.
Public stonings (the deadly kind)
Interest-free loans.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Aug 29, 2016 - 07:58pm PT
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And all those things are bad. I have no issue with banning full-face coverings, as that does have security implications.
But banning head scarves and burkinis is just picking on a religion. Do they ban nun habits and Jewish head caps in public? Clerical collars? If not then they are playing favorites, and that is not acceptable.
The fact that bad things go on in Muslim countries is no reason to also do that in western countries. If we allow the actions of terrorists to change our values and freedoms, then the terrorists have won.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Aug 29, 2016 - 08:44pm PT
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France has a big problem on their hands because of their immigration policies.
They have a big problem on their hands because of a) their colonial past, b) their proximity to the Mideast and Africa, and c) because we - via W and then neocons - went over there and cluelessly screwed the pooch.
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deschamps
Gym climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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It is one thing when a society makes a choice, but it is another, completely, when the gov't of that society chooses which religions it permits freedom of expression. When that happens, it is not secular, it has now chosen the national religion
You don't seem to understand french society nor french government. The French actually don't make a choice. Overly expressive religious symbols are not appropriate to wear in France no matter what religion they depict.
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deschamps
Gym climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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You cannot protect freedom, by restricting freedom.
Freedom is not the issue here. The issue is abiding by the cultural norms of a country if you choose to immigrate to that country.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Freedom is the issue. Otherwise, you will have a identibot society, where everyone has tea, at 7am, and NO ONE CLIMBS.
Climbers break the "cultural norms" as much as anyone, short of actual criminals.
And since crime is allegedly so common, perhaps that is the norm?
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Freedom is the issue.
Clearly it is to you, but you can not speak for the French.
Curt
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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It sought to ban the tacit state-acceptance of an ideology that is oppressive to women and contrary to the community values of the general population...like the ban on full-face veils. Accepting such a thing in France means that at some point, they'd have to accept other aspects of Muslim culture:
Unescorted women forbidden to leave their homes.
Genital mutilation of young girls.
Public stonings (the deadly kind)
Interest-free loans.
It is NOT oppressive to the women who, in a modern society, CHOOSE to wear it. Then the oppression is coming from the "modern" society, dominated by men, who are telling women what THEY find acceptable to wear.
Genital mutilation is NOT a muslim attribute, it is an AFRICAN attribute.
Eritria has about 90% female genital mutilation----a CHRISTIAN country!
Ethiopia has about 75% Female genital mutilation--a CHRISTIAN country!
Outside of Central Africa, it is not an actual issue for muslim countries----it is a CULTURAL issue, not a religious issue.
We, the only country in the western world that executes minors and mentally ill, might not want to be talking about executions. Does this mean that FRANCE has to accept execution because they don't go crazy when American expats fly a flag or sing the star spangled banner? Would they have been thrown out of bars during the Olympics? Or only if they were Mormons?
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Clearly it is to you, but you can not speak for the French.
Curt
Certainly I cannot. But you cannot speak for America, and certainly not for California.
And I certainly CAN speak TO the French.
Why is it ok to speak to the Chinese about repression of religion, but not to the French?
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