Rope Bags - Sequence and management for Big Wall Routes

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randy88fj62

Trad climber
LA, CA
Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 16, 2016 - 02:48pm PT
Can someone run through the basics of rope management with rope bags on big wall? Specifically whether or not two snake charmer Fish Products rope bags would be useful.

If yes, does the leader pull up the second snake charmer rope bag not in use via tag line once lead rope is fixed?
deuce4

climber
Hobart, Australia
Aug 16, 2016 - 02:54pm PT
As the inventor of the first big wall hanging rope bag (the A5 "Rope Bucket" around 1987), I actually prefer stacking most ropes in slings. The A5 Rope Bucket was originally designed for soloing, for soloing a hanging rope bag is super useful, but not necessary for typical three rope big wall systems. It's good to get good at quickly stacking a rope in a sling.

Saying that, Fish's two bag in one idea does seem pretty cool, but i doubt you would need more than one per wall.
randy88fj62

Trad climber
LA, CA
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 16, 2016 - 03:04pm PT
Deuce,
If you only have 1 on your climb then every other pitch would use it as it needs the rope to leave the bag before it can be re-used. Hence my brain squint at the thought of two in use.

I can understand the necessity of them when soloing. I'm mainly asking for a 2 party or more team.
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
Aug 16, 2016 - 06:59pm PT
only climbing one pitch at a time, so you only need one bag/charmer.

After hauling, where you attach the charmer to the pig, then you can stack your lead cord back in.

It's really convenient and clean to use a charmer, but I definitely was stacking the ropes a little more than I thought I would. But rope hiccups coming out of a sling never happened. No hanging up on stuff.

Sling managed is a great way to go with less bulk.

Personal preference will dictate.
deuce4

climber
Hobart, Australia
Aug 16, 2016 - 09:09pm PT
Oh! Ditto of Munge's comment. Clever distribution of resources is key on big walls, Generally you will have some time after the haul to tweak your setup and prep for the next lead, while your partner is still cleaning the pitch below.
Melissa

Gym climber
berkeley, ca
Aug 16, 2016 - 10:40pm PT
I like nylon grocery bags that tuck into a tiny pocket. They're cheap, light, and carry easily on the rack.
j-tree

Big Wall climber
Typewriters and Ledges
Aug 17, 2016 - 08:19am PT
Lol that was my snake charmer that munge was using when we sent zodiac. He was less of a believer on the ground and sold by the top.

As long as you're not speedwalling the extra time restocking the rope back into the ropebag after hauling the bag up with the haulbag (or better have it sent up with the tagline so you can stack the haul line as you haul) is insignificant.

Basically the charmer is a bit heavier than you'll think it is so having one is preferable to two
Moof

Big Wall climber
Orygun
Aug 17, 2016 - 09:48am PT
I never found a nice sequence to get the darn thing to the upper station such that it actually helped. I always end up stacking the rope in my aiders and call it good. Soloing is a different story, but I gave up that.
'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
Aug 17, 2016 - 09:59am PT
I like rope bags. I have never been much good at stacking ropes on slings, as they always cluster up on me.

I like one rope bag per lead rope, and two rope bags per haul line [when climbing with partners]. If you are soloing, one rope bag per haul line is fine. Once the leader has reached the upper station, I will zip up the empty lead rope bag and spare [upper] haul line bag.

The lower haul line bag - still full of haul line if no lower-out is required - stays full on the load. Just make sure you clip the haul line bag ABOVE the swivel, and not below it! Otherwise the rope will wrap round the swivel as the pig rotates.

As for your Dr. Piton Big Wall Tip of the Day - get yourself a Personal Pleasure Pulley, also known as a DMM Revolver in the non-locking style. It's the carabiner with the little built-in pulley on the gate end. This is something you keep on your harness at all times, and you can clip it in above your rope bag when you stack rope. It reduces friction on the rope as you stack it in the bag, and most importantly, saves your hands.

These DMM Revolvers are not cheap, but they are worth every penny in terms of ease of use, and how well they save your hands.

Cheers, eh?
WBraun

climber
Aug 17, 2016 - 10:36am PT
Americans need every little gadget.

Without their gadgets they become instantly useless .....
Da-Veed

Big Wall climber
Bigfork
Aug 17, 2016 - 10:39am PT
Snake Charmer is perfect for Soloing, I have not really climbed walls with a partner, so as far as that goes I see most people stacking in a sling. Soloing is different, you don't want to risk a snagged rope mid pitch. The revolver is great for stacking into a rope bag. I have used Fishes Snake Charmer for years. Love it.
Melissa

Gym climber
berkeley, ca
Aug 17, 2016 - 10:49am PT
The grocery bags have the advantage of having negligible size and weight, so you can have 2 at the bottom belay and two with the leader if you want. No shenanigans.
NA_Kid

Big Wall climber
The Bear State
Aug 17, 2016 - 10:58am PT
When climbing big walls with a 3 rope system I like to have 2 rope bags. One single bag for the lead line and then a double bag for the haul line. The extra pocket is great for the belayer to put a water bottle, food, smokes, camera, and other sh!t in there and have it easily accessible and not be digging around in the bag all the time. Tag line gets stacked in an aider and the lead rope bag gets sent up on the first tag, while the other bag gets sent up on the main haul. Having ropes in separate bags makes organization easier because you can move ropes around individually, reducing tangles.
randy88fj62

Trad climber
LA, CA
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 17, 2016 - 02:47pm PT
Thanks for the all the input. Goal is the Prow next month.

Made this guy:
micronut

Trad climber
Fresno/Clovis, ca
Aug 17, 2016 - 03:01pm PT
Atta boy. Nice work! Way to Macguyver it up yourself!
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Aug 17, 2016 - 04:20pm PT




Mungeclimber

Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
Aug 17, 2016 - 04:45pm PT
Lol that was my snake charmer that munge was using when we sent zodiac. He was less of a believer on the ground and sold by the top.

Nah, I was using the double charmer before I did LF, we just happened to use Gomz's that trip (IIRC). But have been a believer since then. I'm just not a religious bucket stacker.
randy88fj62

Trad climber
LA, CA
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 18, 2016 - 07:59am PT
I'll say that I probably won't make another double bag. Going off of Fish's pictures and making a rough copy was a pain. I don't think my center panel and taper came out well. I'm amazed that a company can sell such a bag so cheap. Especially when you start adding in labor.
Flip Flop

climber
Earth Planet, Universe
Aug 18, 2016 - 10:48am PT
Werner sounds constipated. Same old sh#t. Let it go, nutsy.
AlanDoak

Trad climber
Boulder, CO
Aug 18, 2016 - 11:52am PT
Or you could short-fix and block lead instead, which instantly reduces rope management issues by >50%.
Messages 1 - 20 of total 23 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
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