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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Oct 10, 2016 - 11:55am PT
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Still, I'd rather see us refrain from acting when we have no clue what the action would bring. I suppose that last sentence sums up why no one should vote for Trump.
Or Clinton. She was the one that pushed for action in Libya. What was she thinking? Didn't she see what happened in Iraq?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Oct 10, 2016 - 12:38pm PT
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Still, I'd rather see us refrain from acting when we have no clue what the action would bring. I suppose that last sentence sums up why no one should vote for Trump.
;>)
What respect I have left for you, John, is almost lost on that silly f*#king emoticon you put after you make a silly statement. Please stop doing that.
You're one of the guys I respect here, but that's too much.
The last thing the Middle East, or Med-East (mediterraian), needs is "regime change".
Are you advocating Assad-change?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Oct 10, 2016 - 12:48pm PT
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How much does Buffet owe in back taxes? Is that why he's so generous?
Why are we talking about WB?
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 10, 2016 - 12:50pm PT
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"What respect I have left for you, John"
Whoa.
WHHOOAAA.
The Republicans are eating each other today. Musta been a tough night at the debates!
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Oct 10, 2016 - 12:53pm PT
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The last thing King Abdullaah (jordan), and Israel, and Egypt needs is a fuking war spilling into their borders.
Somebody needs to squash ISIS like the bug it is. TRUMP/PENCE!!!
Can we quit f*#king around?????
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Oct 10, 2016 - 12:55pm PT
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Steve, my comment about Trump is simply my perception that he represents change, but we don't know what that change will bring about. I used the winking emoticon because I intended the thrust of my comments to reflect American foreign policy failures generally, and those of Clinton in particular. It just struck me as ironic that one could use what I said with equal force against Trump.
As just one example, he seemed to keep his "Twitter finger" under control, and his standing in the polls improved, but then he went ahead and sent that twitter message about the former Miss Universe. That makes me think he'll continue to do that if elected President. I have no idea what will happen to U.S. relations if someone with so little apparent control over what he says is our commander-in-chief.
I hope it was clear that I think we should not be intervening where our intelligence is too poor to know the result of that intervention. I hope you find it equally clear that I strongly disagree with Clinton's policy in the Middle East for that very reason -- she had no clue what would happen as a result of her actions.
Sometimes change is good, but sometimes it makes things worse. I happen to find both Clinton and Trump to be potential disasters. Since I can't vote for Pence as president, I'd rather see Johnson and Weld, two former Republican governors who know how to get things done without being dictators or puppets, than either Trump or Clinton.
Best regards,
John
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Oct 10, 2016 - 01:07pm PT
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John, my respect for you is founded in your response to me. I appreciate that!
I appreciate that you reply to my attack. I'm disturbed that you won't support Trump. Deeply. But that's o.k.
It's hard to support Trump publicly. I'll do it. Somebody needs to.
Call me the stupid idiot holding the TRUMP sign. Trump is a vessel. He is the 'beginning'.
Ya gotta have vision, man!
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Oct 10, 2016 - 01:16pm PT
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Hillary supports drone bombing innocent people
Lemmings. Every last one of you who think that list isn't up to snuff.
Yeahhhhhh, right. She want to kill innocent people. And Obama want to destroy America.
Great example of the delusionary right (or left). It's not just policy differences, it's that Dems are actually evil and want to harm the country.
I'm not fan of Hillary but to think she wants to kill innocent people just shows how unreasonable some people are.
Like I said a while ago: anyone who still supports Trump at this stage needs to believe obvious BS and lies the support their delusional worldview. And that was before the latest sexist crap came out.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Oct 10, 2016 - 01:16pm PT
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Thanks, Steve.
John
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Oct 10, 2016 - 01:17pm PT
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She was the one that pushed for action in Libya. What was she thinking? Didn't she see what happened in Iraq?
No one, and I mean no one, had good options once Libya was lit up. Not us, not Europe, not Russia, not Iran, not China - no one. The choice was either sit on the sidelines and become irrelevant to events unfolding with or without us or act. The UN Security Council chose to act in establishing a no-fly-zone which NATO implemented. At that point all the NATO countries including us were in. It was not a choice clinton made, it was a decision which the UN, NATO and the Obama administration made and in which she was responsible for implementing the State Dept's responsibilities in the wake of that decision.
And Libya was just one of the dominos to fall in the wake of the Iraq War, Syria is another with just as bad or worse choices for all external parties as Libya - there are no good options or outcomes for anyone involved.
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dirtbag
climber
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Oct 10, 2016 - 01:17pm PT
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Somebody needs to squash ISIS like the bug it is. TRUMP/PENCE!!!
What a joke.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Oct 10, 2016 - 01:19pm PT
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Call me the stupid idiot holding the TRUMP sign.
Stupid idiot.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Oct 10, 2016 - 01:22pm PT
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I'm an idiot because i support Donald Trump.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Oct 10, 2016 - 01:24pm PT
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Trump is a vessel. He is the 'beginning'.
Not stupid, just ignorant and a dupe. Trump is a 'vessel'; unfortunately that vessel is a toilet in dire need of flushing.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Oct 10, 2016 - 01:24pm PT
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Excellent. The first step is admitting you have a problem.
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Oct 10, 2016 - 01:25pm PT
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The last thing the Middle East, or Med-East (mediterraian), needs is "regime change".
you should have mentioned that to bush.
I'm an idiot because i support Donald Trump.
bluering, you said it, not us.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 10, 2016 - 01:25pm PT
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What healyej & Fet said.
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c wilmot
climber
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Oct 10, 2016 - 01:25pm PT
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Now it's iraq that caused the fall of Libya? I thought it was a "people's" uprising as a result of the Arab spring? If it's now because of Iraq- then why are we aiding the "rebel" groups who are comprised of our enemies from Iraq?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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Oct 10, 2016 - 01:26pm PT
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Squash ISIS...? Trump / Pence....2 more chicken hawks sending America's children into harms way...
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Oct 10, 2016 - 01:28pm PT
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I hope you find it equally clear that I strongly disagree with Clinton's policy in the Middle East for that very reason -- she had no clue what would happen as a result of her actions.
John just can't control the hate for Hillary, so he lies about her to make her seem less appealing
Clinton's actions in the Middle East?
What actions?
she didn't control any actions
She did what every SOS does, they advocate the President actions.
They do what the President wants, they can't implement any of their own policies,
and say that she does makes you look foolish hack
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