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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Heller did not overrule any Supreme Court precedent, either explicitly or implicitly.
I don't know what you mean by "overrule," but Heller certainly changed the meaning of the 2nd Amendment. In the wake of Heller, many, many State and local laws trying to restrict gun ownership (many of them quite reasonable) were found to be unconstitutional.
What seems to me to be more of a fraud is the view that proper interpretation of the 2nd Amendment is solely that the government has the right have weapons--I'm not saying that's necessarily your view (I don't know), but when I hear people say that's what they think the 2nd Amendment "means," I'm at a bit of a loss for words (a rare condition for a lawyer).
One thing we probably do agree upon is the that the 2nd Amendment is terribly written from a modern perspective at least, and so I suppose we can't get too bent out of shape when people claim it "means" something other than what we'd like.
My reasoning is this--there is little superfluous language in the Bill of Rights. Most language was included for good reasons.
It is difficult to see how this:
(1) "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
is now construed to mean this:
(2) "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
This requires completely ignoring the mention of a militia or believing it did not mean to modify the second part of the sentence. I find that extremely unlikely since the amendment could have simply been written as (2) above, but it was not.
I believe, as many do, that the original intent of the 2nd Amendment could have been stated much more clearly as "The government shall not infringe the rights of people who are members of well regulated militias to keep and bear arms." I believe that is much more consistent with all the language actually contained in the amendment.
But, as you say, the original meaning will probably never be known with any certainty.
Curt
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Curt, the dissent in Heller argues that the Second Amendment does not create an individual right to keep and bear arms, which no SCOTUS decision ever held. Such a holding would also mean "the right of the people" does not mean the right of individual people, which would be a remarkable holding, but given that the dissent also thought the First Amendment does not mean "Congress shall make no law abridging freedom of speech . . ." means Congress can make a law abriding freedom of speech as long as Congress (and, of course, the same justices) don't want the target of that law to engage in speech.
John
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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I don't know what you mean by "overrule," but Heller certainly changed the meaning of the 2nd Amendment. In the wake of Heller, many, many State and local laws trying to restrict gun ownership (many of them quite reasonable) were found to be unconstitutional.
"Overrule" means that the Supreme Court in Heller did not to say that a previous decision of the Supreme Court was wrong and needed to be changed (i.e., "overruled").
It's significant because, in our system of government, the Constitution means whatever the Supreme Court says it means. (As a slight digression, that's the rule because that's what the Supreme Court said, in the circularly reasoned case of Marbury v. Madison).
The Supreme Court hadn't really weighed in on what the 2nd Amendment means before Heller, and so there was no significant "law" to be changed. It's perhaps more accurate to simply say Heller was largely a case of first impression--the first time the Court had really considered the issue.
It's true that Heller required finding that certain laws were unconstitutional, but that's not really enough to describe a decision as "activist."
For example, let's say the legislature of the great state of Alabama said that it was time to restart slavery, and everyone who has an ancestor who had been a slave must report to be checked in as a slave. A court would hold that law to be unconstitutional, but that would not be an "activist" court--it would simply be applying a legal rule (the 13th Amendment).
Examples of "activist" decisions are things like Roe v. Wade (establishing a federal right to an abortion) and Mirnada (finding that that the Constitution requires a police officers to read those arrested a detailed list of various rights in order to use any subsequent statements).
At least the court in Heller was purporting to interpret language in the Constitution that was directly relevant to the issue being decided, regardless of whether you think it got it "right." The Court in the the other cases wasn't even really purporting to interpret any particular text of the Constitution--it was basically just making stuff up. That's what an "activist" court is.
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Examples of "activist" decisions are things like Roe v. Wade (establishing a federal right to an abortion) and Mirnada (finding that that the Constitution requires a police officers to read those arrested a detailed list of various rights in order to use any subsequent statements).
At least the court in Heller was purporting to interpret language in the Constitution that was directly relevant to the issue being decided, regardless of whether you think it got it "right." The Court in the the other cases wasn't even really purporting to interpret any particular text of the Constitution--it was basically just making stuff up. That's what an "activist" court is.
Got it. An activist court is one that legislates from the bench in favor of liberals and not one that legislates from the bench in favor of conservatives.
It is no less activist for Scalia to take out a red pencil and simply strike "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State," from the 2nd Amendment, as though those words had no original meaning to the Framers.
Curt
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Love legal reasoning.
It's good to know that a drunk driver cannot be prohibited from having a car. Of course, that is because it can be used as a weapon, and if you don't think so, consider all the people who have been convicted of aiming a car at someone, and being convicted of assault with a deadly weapon.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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How can someone mispronounce "Nevada" while lecturing people how to pronounce it?
Sort of like Dan Quail again, instructing a spelling bee participant on the correct spelling of "potatoe"
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Did this just turn into a gun thread?
I thought this was funny given all the clown madness recently.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Woody Guthrie rented from Fred Trump in the 1950s. Woody wrote some poetry about Old Man Trump, and it was adapted into a song.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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QNTL,
Go referee somewhere else. I don't give a sh#t what kind of boat you think you're on because its clear from your posts that you're riding the crazy train.
I assure you, Dr Fry doesn't care that you have him in your u-boat sights and, although its low ball, if he wants to refer to someone as a "grunt window washer" that's his prerogative. And your attempt to (continually) command whatever decorum you think is appropriate on a variety of threads is annoying. For the record will henceforth be met with exactly NOT what you are asking for my part.
He was called out for showing his ass and it gives further insight into him and people like him who would belittle hard working people. We didn't need you to point that out, we got it already.
So how about you go back to the "people who deleted" thread and take your mush mouthed finger-wagging somewhere else.
In other news. Today's Random Headlines:
Top Latino polling firm: Trump is headed for a historic, lopsided loss among a key group
Hillary Clinton applauds Kanye West for ending concert early after Kim Kardashian robbery: 'Bless his heart'
Trump's use of debts, tax laws spurs concerns about his methods
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Fair play for Cuba.
Anyone ever seen a kunt window washer?
mechano window washer?
climbo window washer - rope up and bang
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dirtbag
climber
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"Trump is a disgusting piece of human garbage"...
Yep...
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Clump has reversed positions again. The reporter was actually mocking the infirmity (Trumps's) which kept him out of Viet Nam.
**
Cruise is on a direct line to Gawd! He's asking forgiveness for Clump.
-Klimner
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Where's the little red and blue graph today??
I've grown to like it!!
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dirtbag
climber
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"The polls are rigged!"
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
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I actually mustered up some respect for Cruz when he dissed Trump. I guess in reality he is as spineless as the rest of them.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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The SS Trump takes on water..Decent American's are starting to see Trump for what he is...A trash-mouthed loser leading the charge for the 47 percent free-loaders...
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dirtbag
climber
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^^^It's starting to look that way.
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