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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Too bad Peter Thiel was born in Germany. Then again, we already elected a foreigner as president so maybe there's hope.......lol
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Climate Change denialist
valid opinion or willfully ignorant
Cutting Taxes for the Rich will boast the economy and the trickle down will increase everyone's wages
valid opinion or disingenuous liar
The earth is 6,000 years old!
valid opinion or faith in religion trumps scientific fact
Obama couldn't get anything done!
valid opinion or misinformed about the history of the last 8 years, and disingenuous because of partisan ideology
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Interesting read on Trumpkins. What many supertopo posters have been saying about the right being fear driven. And why you won't get anywhere trying to have a reasonable discussion with them.
A neuroscientist explains what may be wrong with Trump supporters’ brains
Bobby Azarian, Raw Story BOBBY AZARIAN, RAW STORY
04 AUG 2016 AT 05:12 ET
There’s no doubt that Donald Trump has said many things that would have been political suicide for any other Republican candidate. And almost every time he made one of these shocking statements, political analysts on both the left and the right predicted that he’d lose supporters because of it. But as we have clearly seen over the past year, they were dead wrong every time. Trump appears to be almost totally bulletproof.
The only thing that might be more perplexing than the psychology of Donald Trump is the psychology of his supporters. In their eyes, The Donald can do no wrong. Even Trump himself seems to be astonished by this phenomenon. “I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn’t lose any voters, OK? It’s, like, incredible.”
Senator John McCain, who has been a regular target for Trump during his campaign, has a simple explanation for his unwavering support. “What he did was he fired up the crazies.”
While the former Republican presidential nominee may be on to something, he doesn’t exactly provide a very satisfying scientific explanation. So how exactly are Trump loyalists psychologically or neurologically different from everyone else? What is going on in their brains that makes them so blindly devoted?
The Dunning-Kruger Effect:
Some believe that many of those who support Donald Trump do so because of ignorance — basically they are under-informed or misinformed about the issues at hand. When Trump tells them that crime is skyrocketing in the United States, or that the economy is the worst it’s ever been, they simply take his word for it.
The seemingly obvious solution would be to try to reach those people through political ads, expert opinions, and logical arguments that educate with facts. Except none of those things seem to be swaying any Trump supporters from his side, despite great efforts to deliver this information to them directly.
The Dunning-Kruger effect explains that the problem isn’t just that they are misinformed; it’s that they are completely unaware that they are misinformed. This creates a double burden.
Studies have shown that people who lack expertise in some area of knowledge often have a cognitive bias that prevents them from realizing that they lack expertise. As psychologist David Dunning puts it in an op-ed for Politico, “The knowledge and intelligence that are required to be good at a task are often the same qualities needed to recognize that one is not good at that task — and if one lacks such knowledge and intelligence, one remains ignorant that one is not good at the task. This includes political judgment.” Essentially, they’re not smart enough to realize they’re dumb.
And if one is under the illusion that they have sufficient or even superior knowledge, then they have no reason to defer to anyone else’s judgment. This helps explain why even nonpartisan experts — like military generals and Independent former Mayor of New York/billionaire CEO Michael Bloomberg — as well as some respected Republican politicians, don’t seem to be able to say anything that can change the minds of loyal Trump followers.
Out of immense frustration, some of us may feel the urge to shake a Trump supporter and say, “Hey! Don’t you realize that he’s an idiot?!” No. They don’t. That may be hard to fathom, but that’s the nature of the Dunning-Kruger effect — one’s ignorance is completely invisible to them.
Hypersensitivity to Threat
Science has unequivocally shown that the conservative brain has an exaggerated fear response when faced with stimuli that may be perceived as threatening. A classic study in the journal Science found that conservatives have a stronger physiological reaction to startling noises and graphic images compared to liberals. A brain-imaging study published in Current Biology revealed that those who lean right politically tend to have a larger amygdala — a structure that is electrically active during states of fear and anxiety. And a 2014 fMRI study found that it is possible to predict whether someone is a liberal or conservative simply by looking at their brain activity while they view threatening or disgusting images, such as mutilated bodies. Specifically, the brains of self-identified conservatives generated more activity overall in response to the disturbing images.
So how does this help explain the unbridled loyalty of Trump supporters? These brain responses are automatic, and not influenced by logic or reason. As long as Trump continues his fear mongering by constantly portraying Muslims and Mexican immigrants as imminent dangers, many conservative brains will involuntarily light up like light bulbs being controlled by a switch. Fear keeps his followers energized and focused on safety. And when you think you’ve found your protector, you become less concerned with remarks that would normally be seen as highly offensive.
Terror Management Theory
A well-supported theory from social psychology, called Terror Management Theory, explains why Trump’s fear mongering is doubly effective.
The theory is based on the fact that humans have a unique awareness of their own mortality. The inevitably of one’s death creates existential terror and anxiety that is always residing below the surface. In order to manage this terror, humans adopt cultural worldviews — like religions, political ideologies, and national identities — that act as a buffer by instilling life with meaning and value.
Terror Management Theory predicts that when people are reminded of their own mortality, which happens with fear mongering, they will more strongly defend those who share their worldviews and national or ethnic identity, and act out more aggressively towards those who do not. Hundreds of studies have confirmed this hypothesis, and some have specifically shown that triggering thoughts of death tends to shift people towards the right.
Not only do death reminders increase nationalism, they influence actual voting habits in favor of more conservative presidential candidates. And more disturbingly, in a study with American students, scientists found that making mortality salient increased support for extreme military interventions by American forces that could kill thousands of civilians overseas. Interestingly, the effect was present only in conservatives, which can likely be attributed to their heightened fear response.
By constantly emphasizing existential threat, Trump creates a psychological condition that makes the brain respond positively rather than negatively to bigoted statements and divisive rhetoric. Liberals and Independents who have been puzzled over why Trump hasn’t lost supporters after such highly offensive comments need look no further than Terror Management Theory.
High Attentional Engagement
According to a recent study that monitored brain activity while participants watched 40 minutes of political ads and debate clips from the presidential candidates, Donald Trump is unique in his ability to keep the brain engaged. While Hillary Clinton could only hold attention for so long, Trump kept both attention and emotional arousal high throughout the viewing session. This pattern of activity was seen even when Trump made remarks that individuals didn’t necessarily agree with. His showmanship and simple messages clearly resonate at a visceral level.
Essentially, the loyalty of Trump supporters may in part be explained by America’s addiction with entertainment and reality TV. To some, it doesn’t matter what Trump actually says because he’s so amusing to watch. With Donald, you are always left wondering what outrageous thing he is going to say or do next. He keeps us on the edge of our seat, and for that reason, some Trump supporters will forgive anything he says. They are happy as long as they are kept entertained.
Of course these explanations do not apply to all Trump supporters. In fact, some are likely intelligent people who know better, but are supporting Trump to be rebellious or to introduce chaos into the system. They may have such distaste for the establishment and Hillary Clinton that their vote for Trump is a symbolic middle finger directed at Washington.
So what can we do to potentially change the minds of Trump loyalists before voting day in November? As a cognitive neuroscientist, it grieves me to say that there may be nothing we can do. The overwhelming majority of these people may be beyond reach, at least in the short term. The best we can do is to motivate everyone else to get out to the booths and check the box that doesn’t belong to a narcissistic nationalist who has the potential to damage the nation beyond repair.
Bobby Azarian is a neuroscientist affiliated with George Mason University and a science writer. His research has been published in journals such as Cognition & Emotion and Psychonomic Bulletin & Review, and he has written for The New York Times, Scientific American, Psychology Today, Slate, The Daily Beast, and The Huffington Post. He also runs the website Science Is Sexy. Follow him @BobbyAzarian.
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dirtbag
climber
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Sounds like a Rocky endeavor, but doable, if you want it Badinoff dahling
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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You're going to start a party all of your own because you don't like what the media has said about Hillary Clinton!!!
Good luck with that
Maybe if you read some positive stuff you would change your mind
The media has painted a very distorted false picture of her, simple as that.
What are you going to do for the 30 years before that happens?
Let Trump win because you can only vote for something that doesn't exist?
That's how the Dictators take over, voters so confused they don't even vote.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Question: Why has the republican party, the party of Abraham Lincoln, nominated Donald Trump?
Answer: BECAUSE DONALD TRUMP BEST REPRESENTS THE VALUES AND GOALS OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.
I know this because the republican party voted this way and then saw it through at their convention, and then post-convention the party has made it clear again and again Mr. Trump is their man.
Even Ted Cruz says so.
That is the answer. The republican party is the party of Donald Trump.
Enjoy!
DMT
Are you still a registered Republican?
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WBraun
climber
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A neuroscientist explains what may be wrong with Hillary and Trump politard supporters’ brains.
Bobby Azarian, Raw Story BOBBY AZARIAN, RAW STORY
04 AUG 2016 AT 05:12 ET
Wow!!!!
Even mainstream media can see you nutcases are as brain damaged as they are ......
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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The problem with Trump supporters brains is that they support Trump. We don't, so we pathologize their brain functioning. As opposed to our own, which is spot on, as demonstrated by the fact that we don't support Trump. They just have faulty belief creation processes, the way half of the humans sometimes do.
Conservatives have an exaggerated fear response. Compared to us - the right, normal brain-functioning folks. Everyone should crave risk and adventure, the way we do.
No consideration of the purpose and function and 'rightness' of their brain functioning. Or of, eg, brown skin functioning. It's just wrong. Hang on a sec, and I'm sure I can find some facts, which in the right light, will prove that what I believe is true.
In the diversity of our variations, we seem to believe that a monoculture of ourselves would be the optimal evolutionary strategy. Don't look now, but the universe is calling bullsh#t.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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I love David Mccullough, thanks for posting up, Charlie D.
And then there is this under its commentary to an hrc opponent...
Ask yourself, what kind of person does it take for you to be, to have fallen for the myriad of lies and smears told about Hillary Clinton?
Just what kind if person are you? There are only 3 choices. Stupid, ignorant, or evil. Let's hope it's simple ignorance exacerbated by being lied to by people you wrongfully put your trust in." -EmeraldView
hmm.
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Ask yourself, what kind of person does it take for you to be, to have fallen for the myriad of lies and smears told about Hillary Clinton?
Just what kind if person are you? There are only 3 choices. Stupid, ignorant, or evil. Let's hope it's simple ignorance exacerbated by being lied to by people you wrongfully put your trust in." -EmeraldView
If you're a bird-brained duck, it's likely all three.
Curt
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Tough guy Trump mocks a woman who was sick, no wonder the little weasels here support him.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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I can't believe I ate the whole thing… or have read this thread up to now. I think I am sick. I either need to see a physician or a shrink.
As I can see, I am blind.
So on the Taco Stand we have a Polish immigrant (hey, I am an immigrant in Ireland. Lots of Poles here, lots - not the Polish airline though, that's LOT- hardly any liberal Poles that I have met, and hey look, no surprise, Poland is pretty much right wing, I think, it seems, I could be wrong).
I digress. This Polish immigrant is drooling over Trump, yet supports Bernie and hates Hillary. And thinks John Pilger may have a point or two (yeah, I have met John several times, tried to talk with him but he is so anti-American, he doesn't have time for us Yank hacks, or at least me, perhaps my bad. I will listen to Noam Chomsky and Robert Fisk, for example, but Pilger, no thanks, but yet, he does make some strong points).
As for name dropping, I don't give a flying eff what any of you may think. Pilger was an ass to me, for no reason that I can ascertain except that I was an American. Basically he said that I knew sh#t as an American journalist. WTF??? Yeah, right John, and thanks for meeting you (the fourth time I avoided him like the plague, why be insulted again.) But, London did treat me well, in my seven years there. Maggie was tough, Richard Branson a surprisingly nice guy and Roy Keane, well I never met him.
And also on the Taco Stand a German immigrant who hates Americans and yet has sucked off the US government's tit for years. Stoopid Yanks, the duck is just winding us up, he loves America. Otherwise he would have left.
And the Canucks, eh, excuse me, Canadians, they pretty much have a decent pulse on things, but I could be wrong.
And then the odd Supertopo stragglers from afar. You know... Britain, New Zealand, Mars.
So that just leaves… Americans. Love em or leave em. Hey, I am one, since 1640, I age well don't I? It's the botox.
I despise Trump but… hmmm, if I win the Euromillions today, €140m, that's like 156 million smackeroos. As a Yank liable for US income tax anywhere in this world, including Mars and the universe, I'd have to pay the IRS 39.6% of my winnings. That is like $62m, ouch.
Or I could give up my US citizenship, but… what's $62m, I'd still have… my coveted (in my mind) US citizenship, my pride knowing I paid my taxes fairly, my honor knowing I paid my taxes, and still have about $80m… I can live with that.
Still, what was the name of Trump's accountant? I may just look him up if Lady Luck smiles on me today.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Conservatives have an exaggerated fear response. Compared to us - the right, normal brain-functioning folks. Everyone should crave risk and adventure, the way we do.
You make a good point.
I always thought more climbers were left than right because they were environmentalists (by that I mean the original definition of environmentalist which is a person who is concerned with or advocates the protection of the environment, NOT the right wing media portrayal as far left Earth first types).
But maybe you also don't see many right wing climbers because they are fearful.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Moose, I am winding you up. You sure responded faster than I thought you would. And if you think sparkling water is drinking, well, I suppose it is.
I am just having a bit of fun. Come on, after reading all of this thread, and I have, don't ask me why (well, it is sort of entertaining, except for the name calling, oops, have I done that?), I just wanted to throw in a penny or two worth (since I last tossed a dime).
And I do respect the Stoopid German's input/efforts/whatever as a top notch SAR man. None better that I know of, now if he could just get his duck to stop smoking. It's not healthy you know.
As for the back and forths, and the name calling and the ad hominem, uh, remarks, certainly not attacks, not from sophisticated climbers… it can be a bit confusing. And I can easily be confused.
Still, believe it or not (Ripley's) I have learned from this thread (like, for example, keep my mouth shut and watch my P&Qs).
EDIT
Chill Moose, and others. I am trying to chill, sort of, in a way. I mean, Moose, reading this thread in its entirety could drive me to drink. Where is my Valium?
Hillary will be a one-term president, and then Condi will be next POTUS after Hillary. You read it here first.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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Potato Brain , Braun , Pyro , and Escopeta are sucking on boors tit at the Trump drumming circle...
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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I have tried my best to refrain, but this is my third post in a short time. I am petulant.
Why have I read this thread all the way through? (Because I am sick, a headcase, wacko). I certainly have info and PR overload (overdose is more like it) from many sources. Not just the Taco Stand.
Well, I like you all, yeah even you Jody, great photographer, shame about your politics, hah hah. But I know you will Cruize past that.
At this point - and for once, I thank the heavens I do not live in my home country America, it must be crazy there (November 8 cannot come soon enough) - I have weighed what all of you have posted. And I have come to the conclusion…
Are you all f*#king nuts?
EDIT
If so, and to be genderless, what size and kind of nuts, eccentrics? I mean, hexentrics?
I can still lead (struggle?) up to 5.11 (yeah, right). I'd love to get Trump up The Crack of Doom. He'd fit right in.
So, let's get light hearted and forget the political bull.
What climbs describe the Trump and what climbs describe Hillary? And to be fair, Johnson, Stein, Pence and Kaine (sounds like a law firm)?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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Sawyer...we're all nuts...When Trump wins we're moving to Ireland...Even Jody..
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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"Potato Brain , Braun , Pyro , and Escopeta are sucking on boors tit at the Trump drumming circle..."
Another rj +1!
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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I digress. This Polish immigrant is drooling over Trump, yet supports Bernie and hates Hillary.
You have to wonder why the Polish in you celebrates the outcome of the Ukrainians and Georgians. Trump makes no secret of his love of Putin's ruling style.
Surely, you have some different perspective, living so much closer to Russia.
I wonder what you support happening when Putin orders Russian troops into Poland, "to protect Russian speaking people"? Putin will start negotiating with his friend. and negotiating. and negotiating.
Hillary will have a very different response to the attack.
You get to have input to which way it goes.....
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