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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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If the Democrats consider the current tax code as unrepresentative of the "little" guy, why aren't they doing anything to fix it? I guess they got sidetracked checking their cuticles when that topic came up?
They aren't in power, but you probably don't keep track of that. They can't do anything about it. Neither can you.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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They aren't in power, but you probably don't keep track of that. They can't do anything about it. Neither can you.
That statement represents the way politics in D.C. has worked (or, really, failed to work) for the past eight years. Since the time of the passage of the ACA, neither party can get 100% of what its most extreme members want. Instead of non-extreme members of the parties trying to reach common goals, both parties have become beholden to their extremes, and adopted an all-or-nothing approach to legislation.
Almost everyone agrees the Internal Revenue Code needs changes, if not a complete re-write, yet no one makes any serious effort to do so. If the Republicans make any attempt to accommodate concerns of Democrats, influential conservative groups like the Heritage Foundation, and idiotic right-wing talk show entertainers, give them grief. (For those on the left who don't read posts from, say the Heritage Foundation, they continue to excoriate the Republicans in the Senate for confirming any of Obama's nominees for any federal judicial opening, e.g.) If the Democrats try to accommodate Republican concerns, they get the same pushback from the Berners.
Enough! We should not give politicians a free pass because they fail to reach compromises. I'm sure the partisans will say the blame lies exclusively on the other side. Baloney! Refusal to compromise and similar childish behavior exists on both sides. If the media and responsible commentators quit their partisanship and concentrated on reforms that have significant support across ideological lines, the legislature can and will enact reforms.
As just one example of what can happen in a seemingly impossible political climate, California enacted, and, to my knowledge, Brown will sign, legislation requiring a criminal conviction before police can obtain funds obtained in civil forfeiture cases under $40,000.00. A Democrat carried the legislation in the State Senate. A Republican carried it in the Assembly. I think this came about, in part, because commentators from both sides exposed the abuse of civil forfeiture. The legislation didn't give either party everything they wanted, but it got rid of a major part of the problem.
We need more of this. We should start by making a better effort to avoid blaming every problem on our political opponents, and making its solution something different from a partisan "win."
John
The only way to change the tax code is to elect a person that is not benefited/financed by big corporations. We blew our chance this time around (Bernie), but I am sure we will see a yuuuge change in four years. The status quo is no more!
Moose, I respectfully disagree, because the collection of United States residents that don't benefit from provisions of the Internal Revenue Code is the null set. Any provision in the Code necessarily benefits some people and harms others, because if someone else pays more, I may get to pay less. Eliminating the "big corporations" from being at the table, and placing them on the table, won't make for a fairer tax code, particularly since it's econometrically impossible to determine which individuals would pay more and which would pay less with changes in corporate taxes.
And it's not the President's job to amend legislation anayway, current experience to the contrary notwithstanding. Congress has that job. As I stated above, it's well past time to stop giving the politicians a pass on their inability to compromise.
John
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Good question crankster. Any Senator or Representative can introduce a bill but........
The bill is filed by the legislator in her/his own chamber, which could be either the Senate or the House of Representatives. If the chamber leadership does not call the bill for First Reading, it “dies."
If the bill IS read it then goes to a committee for hearings, but...............
The President Pro Tempore of the Senate or the Speaker of the House of Representatives can choose not to refer the bill to a committee. In this event, the bill “dies.“
If it IS referred to committee there will be hearings, but.........you probably guessed it
The committee chairperson may choose not to schedule the bill for hearing. In this event, the bill “dies.“
Good system.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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The point I was trying to make was that Trump apparently acted legally. If so, and he got a deduction that exaggerated his economic loss, the problem lies in the Internal Revenue Code. Rather than try to blame Trump for the code, all you need to do is concentrate on the fact that he claimed a gargantuan loss. That way, without getting into a partisan blame game over who bears responsibility for the code's inadequacy, you can point directly at the gall of someone who lost almost a billion dollars claiming to be one of the world's greatest businessmen.
You and I are in pretty much complete agreement on this one. I've said the same thing in multiple posts. I'll just reiterate that Trump is not the only one, by a long shot, to benefit from 'special' treatment in the tax code.
Will it ever be fixed. Most likely not.
I've heard from tax pros (like Mr. Mitnick) that the code could be set into a "corrected" (defined however) state and would become corrupted beyond recognition in 8? years.
BTW, I don't blame Trump for anything. Mr. Mitnick put together the plan and implemented it. Trump just signed off on it.
I don't blame him for being a poor businessman either. If I were going down that path, I start with his father then maybe proceed to the legal system which allowed him to pull the shenanigans he did.
Klimner did suggest that Trump could obtain absolution if he played his cards right.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Thanks for the nice feedback moosedrool. I quit the winery this summer and have opened a wine analysis business, so am no longer actually making it. I guess it's okay to reveal something, as it's no longer operative:
Anytime anyone on ST actually asked for free wine I sent it, and paid shipping. Fortunately didn't have to send out that much, but all requests were honored! Sort of my secret fun thing to do.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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John...you are so right, it is Obama fault that nothing gets done by the republican led congress.
Bob, Bob, Bob. . . . You know what I think. Yes, it's Obama's fault, but not his alone. It's also the fault of the congresisonal Republicans and the congressional Democrats.
John
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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dirtbag
climber
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So?
Trump is still a know nothing, unhinged bigot. You either support this sh#t or you are blindly ignorant of it.
Shame on you either way.
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dirtbag
climber
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The standard-bearer for the party of Lincoln:
Nice going, guys.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Y'all's mileage may vary, eh?
In 1913, our whole tax law was 27 pages. It’s now over 4 million words, 9,000 bloated pages. From 2001-2012 alone, there were 4,600 changes, more than one a day.
You can have at it here.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Bob, Bob, Bob. . . . You know what I think. Yes, it's Obama's fault, but not his alone. It's also the fault of the congresisonal Republicans and the congressional Democrats.
In their 2012 book, Mann and Ornstein correctly identify where the blame lies. Claiming that both major parties are equally to blame is either disingenuous or willfully ignorant.
“The Republican Party has become an insurgent outlier — ideologically extreme; contemptuous of the inherited social and economic regime; scornful of compromise; unpersuaded by conventional understanding of facts, evidence and science; and dismissive of the legitimacy of its political opposition.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/in-theory/wp/2016/03/08/republicans-created-dysfunction-now-theyre-paying-for-it/?utm_term=.75469428c4bb
Curt
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zBrown
Ice climber
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AMEN. Since the debate Trump has had one supporter dress up like him in Times Square.
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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pyro:
Since conventions, Hillary has had 13,970 at rallies. Trump has had 337,995.
Interesting. Then, of course, there's this:
Curt
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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In their 2012 book, Mann and Ornstein correctly identify where the blame lies. Claiming that both major parties are equally to blame is either disingenuous or willfully ignorant.
They have the right to their opinions, as do you and I. Calling disagreement "willfully ignorant" strikes me as claiming rather too much for mere opinion.
John
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Hillary knocked it out of the park, today.
"How anybody could lose a dollar, let alone a billion dollars, in the casino industry is beyond me," she said, calling out Trump for saying at last week's debate that not paying taxes is "smart."
She also pointed out that Trump's campaign surrogates, including Chris Christie, declared him a "genius" for how he used the U.S. tax code.
"Here's my question: what kind of genius loses a billion dollars in a single year!?"
"in the casino business"
I love it.
The house always wins.... unless you're incredibly inept.
Stick a fork in him.
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dirtbag
climber
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I'm surprised we aren't hearing calls to impeach Christie.
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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They have the right to their opinions, as do you and I. Calling disagreement "willfully ignorant" strikes me as claiming rather too much for mere opinion.
Only today's Republicans believe that all opinions are equal and that it's OK to be dismissive of actual competence and expertise. Mann and Ornstein know what they're talking about.
Norman Ornstein's work at the American Enterprise Institute and Thomas Mann's work at the Brookings Institution had brought them into the public eye before, as well as giving them the respect of other political analysts. They previously collaborated on the well-regarded book The Broken Branch. The two have worked in Washington D.C. for more than forty years, Ornstein in particular having written columns for Roll Call and served as an election analyst for CBS News. According to NPR, "they're renowned for their carefully nonpartisan positions."
Curt
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