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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Jul 29, 2016 - 09:47am PT
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There are those who understand and accept the human element in the risks we take - and those who don't.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Jul 31, 2016 - 12:48pm PT
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Some extra information via Mountain Project http://www.mountainproject.com/v/guide-dies-on-grand-teton/112020540__2 .
A couple of details about the rappel devices: they had brought enough for each climber to have an ATC, but one client turned around early, and the other guide who returned with them had 3, not 2, devices in his pack. So one was lacking. He was offered devices by other guides, plus there were several other ropes available to put in place of the stuck one. We think he tried some other type of mitigation (arm wraps, ???) which obviously failed.
As someone above stated, it's a good lesson that, if Gary could make a mistake in this terrain, in this situation, with his customary diligence, then any of us can do so. I was just up there with clients, and it gave me the creeps to be at the top of the rappel, and I was very consciously on top of my game all day.
We miss him something fierce. He leaves a big hole in the fabric of the world, and of his Exum family.
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Jul 31, 2016 - 01:25pm PT
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Wow Bruce-
Have you no compassion?
We have all been on the edge.
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matlinb
Trad climber
Fort Collins, CO
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Jul 31, 2016 - 02:37pm PT
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Bruce, your posts do come off harsh, I believe that the guidelines I practice while climbing are intended to make me as safe as possible. Believing that luck plays a major factor goes against this idea. struck a negative nerve with me. Then to come back and counter argue If somebody makes a bad decision and gets hurt or dies, you might think it is bad luck, but I think that is a bad decision.
Why can't you show some empathy even if you are correct.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Jul 31, 2016 - 03:19pm PT
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I have been 'lucky' more than a couple of times climbing. Make a stupid mistake or get distracted. It can happen. Usually totally unexpectedly.
That's what make them accidents. Dangerous sport. Bruce may be in-delicate in his opinions, but he does make some good points.
Prayers to the guide and family though. Rest in peace, brother. Say 'Hi' to Bachar and Woody for me.
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WBraun
climber
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Jul 31, 2016 - 04:58pm PT
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This is what we do as those of us that have been in the "business" for years and years.
We do things according to time and circumstance that may or may not seem "correct" when viewed in the armchair later.
We are NOT robots, and only human.
My good friend here knew him and climbed with him.
He said he was a real good guy.
Condolences to family and friends...
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Jul 31, 2016 - 08:41pm PT
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Bruce is being candid. Bad decisions aren't akin to bad luck.
Bad decisions may not be "akin to bad luck," but that isn't the point. I think Bruce is making a semantic distinction that makes most outcomes the result of of a person's choices, even if those choices are "bad decisions."
So call it a bad decision if you want, but once you realize that everyone is going to make a certain number of bad decisions, it becomes a matter of luck whether those decisions provide a useful lesson or a funeral. That being the case, it is luck, which is to say the random nature of natural events, that ultimately determines the outcome.
Some of us, I suspect most of us who have climbed for many years, have made our share of bad decisions. We surely try not to, but making some is an inevitable consequence of being human and so fallible. We're still here to talk about those bad decisions because we were lucky. That was and is my original point, the reason why I said that we "understand" what happened, even though in some other sense we don't, because, after the fact, we can see how the consequences could have been avoided.
I think the 700+ people who have so far raised $100,000+ dollars in six days for Gary's wife and children (https://www.gofundme.com/2g5jqkk ) understand what happened in the first sense I described, and from the perspective of that understanding, the question about the decision being good or bad is neither relevant nor consequential.
(Trailing parens in link fixed.)
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Jul 31, 2016 - 10:43pm PT
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I'm very sad to hear this. My heart goes out to Gary's wife and son. So many accidents occur in rappelling. And of course given the nature of rappelling, the outcomes are so often fatal. I'm also sad to hear of the young clients who saw this tragedy unfold. What a shock to them. I wish all the survivors all the best. The Exum guides will of course also be in shock. I know one of them and will be thinking of him.
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josan
Boulder climber
Chapel Hill, North Carolina
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Oh my... another our own was taken.
It was not too long ago that our beloved Allan Bard was lost in this same area. He is missed to this very day.
Palms joined with loving thoughts to his family and many friends.
May we all have long peaceful, loving lives.
Jo Sanders
North Caroiina Pine country...
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Russ
Trad climber
Ventura, CA
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Such a tragedy. Sincere condolences to his family and friends.
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Perk
Trad climber
Laguna Beach
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My condolences go out to Gary and his family, along with the entire Exum family. While I did not know Gary, my wife Kelly and I had the pleasure of being guided by the Exum team and understand the risks and rewards that go with such an endeavor. I have no doubt Gary was one of their high caliber guides and will be sorely missed by many.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Nov 27, 2016 - 02:18pm PT
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...which casts the whole previous accident discussion in a different light.
But doesn't change the fact of a tragic loss.
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couchmaster
climber
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Nov 27, 2016 - 04:34pm PT
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Are they suggesting he was tied in with an old school tied runner which became loose and untied as he leaned onto it?
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Nov 27, 2016 - 04:41pm PT
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My condolences to family and friends.
I'm not sure exactly how the assessment was made, but at first Bellini says that it's possible that the sling property changes were a result of a knot slippage, but then concludes that it's probably what caused the accident. Similarly, Patridge says that it's highly probable that a knot with an insufficient tail was the cause of the accident, while at the same time saying "he was really thorough."
If it's only possibly a sign of a knot slipping, why is it being used to explain that it was probable that it was the cause of the accident? If he was really throrough, how was he not thorough about having an adequate knot tail? In both cases, the original belief seems to have been modified to allow this explanation to make sense. Maybe for good reason? It's hard to tell.
Sometimes I think it's hard for us to resolve exactly what to believe, and if we need to shift it a little bit to our benefit, like believing that it was a bad day for him to go climbing, but today is a good day for us to go climbing, or that it happened to him, but it won't happen to me, then that's what we do.
I hope we're right, and sorry if he wasn't.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Nov 27, 2016 - 07:27pm PT
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I'd say that having an open sling girth-hitched to the harness (but note that the report doesn't mention the attachment method) with overhand knot in one end and no knot in the other end makes it almost certain that a ring bend came undone, especially since ring bends in nylon webbing have been known to "eat" their tails under cyclic loading. (A ring bend in dyneema would, I think, be even more likely to unravel.)
If this is what happened, the attaching carabiner would have remained on the rappel anchor, unless the tether was threaded through the anchor and clipped back to itself or the harness belay loop for some reason.
Presumably, if the tether carabiner was still on the anchor after the accident, no one noticed it, otherwise the "unclipping from the anchor" narrative would never have gotten started.
We'll probably never know much more about this. I think my original comments still hold, perhaps more than before. RIP Gary.
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