K2 Going the Way of Everest?

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BruceHildenbrand

Social climber
Mountain View/Boulder
Topic Author's Original Post - Jul 15, 2016 - 11:30pm PT
Commercial guiding has come to K2. Will it go the way of Everest or is it a difficult enough ascent that it will keep the gumby factor to a minimum?

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/activities/climbing/climbing-k2-compared-to-everest/
labrat

Trad climber
Erik O. Auburn, CA
Jul 15, 2016 - 11:48pm PT
No. Too difficult.
ecdh

climber
the east
Jul 16, 2016 - 12:09am PT
I ponder this at times, as the 8000m safari crowd moves out from nepal/tibet.

A degree of it will succumb to a form of guiding, but not like everest as almost all will have several big peaks down.

Logistics up the baltoro are far far far from the khumbu, so to get even 10% of the everest action its a huge strategic leap. Without the teahouses and well made trail or civil aircraft the relatively easy approach is a bigger deal, not to mention the far fewer porters to carry all the sh#t.

Worth noting too that maybe the big companies that run all this may not see pakistan as very lucrative. Only 1 season and the already tiresome process of relocating guides etc would need a reboot to get significantly bigger.
K2 also doesnt have the O cult everest does. It costs more as it has to come from nepal overland and kinda runs against the idea.

And then youd need to get the guides...pakistan doesnt have the hipster scene to while away time waiting for clients, theres no mass legion of other trekkers to pad out the raw facts of bc life. Bc on the baltoro is a pretty isolated and sterile experience that would take a lot to become the high altitude networking experience the khumbu is.

The climbing itself (i tried the Cesen route, got howled off at C3 with bad planning and incoming storms) is real but doable, tho the hazards are different and higher up. Commercial fixing would be an undertaking both soulless and incredibly difficult.

Its too hard to acclimate on and the camps too small, so any schedule would need to either include a second peak (and fee, bc, etc etc) nearby or a clever way of sorting it on k2. Or as some have done, acclimate cheaply in nepal then quickly fly over....see that as you may.

But a certain type will want it and a certain face if the commercial industry will pander to them.

The guy to ask is fabrizio zangrelli, having both the experience and attitude to lay it out.
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Jul 16, 2016 - 06:47am PT
There was an editorial in Alpinist a while back (after another high body count season) that opined about the same issue. That year far more climbers than before used Os then before, by far, and the sh#t hit the fan when an avalanche took out a fixed line in the Bottleneck, which created a serious problem for those lacking adequate skill/experience. From the article posted, I get the idea of individual climbers joining a group who all want to climb K2 and can leave the logistics to others, but it seems that the usual model is that such climbers have more money than experience, whereas seasoned climbers have the opposite problem.
Bad Climber

Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
Jul 16, 2016 - 07:34am PT
What Fat Dad said. There is a good if disturbing documentary about that season on Netflix--watch it. A bunch of people died because they did not have the skills to actually climb the route. As with the Hillary Step, the tourons waited around for hours and hours in the Hourglass. A bunch of people died during what was arguably some of the best weather the summit area of K2 has seen in, like, forever. Spectacular, stupid, pointless carnage. Killer vacay fer sure.

BAd
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jul 16, 2016 - 07:35am PT
K2 has been climbed by people without strong technical skills but it is clearly a step up from Everest and a step down in bucket list appeal. Imagine being at the water cooler in your Manhatten Law Firm having to explain why climbing the SECOND highest peak is such a big deal..
And as has been pointed out by edch, the long arduous approach is far from gentrified.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jul 16, 2016 - 07:41am PT
That approach will become much more onerous when the Paki Taliban
gets wind of the rich Americans showing up for an adventure.
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
Jul 16, 2016 - 07:55am PT
Me chillin' in Skardu with some Aussie girls, beer and good food. Oh wait, that's me wishing I was in Kathmandu, waiting for shitty mutton (if there is any left) and, inshallah, getting a flight out with within the next two weeks.





Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jul 17, 2016 - 12:34am PT
^^^^^^^^^^^^

That fee doesn't include a mandatory trip up Everest and one other 8km summit.


Bad Climber

Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
Jul 17, 2016 - 06:25am PT
Anyone for a nice little sport climb?

BAd
ecdh

climber
the east
Jul 23, 2016 - 03:42pm PT
I was wrong. K2 will be everest faster than we think. It depresses me to post this.

http://www.alanarnette.com/blog/2016/07/23/avalanche-perhaps-stops-summits-k2-karakorum/

Even just 6 years ago it was 25 people in a friendly BC, looking out for each other, focused, no oxygen i recall, only fixed across avalance chutes, people acclimated elsewhere so kept traffic on the peak and risk to a degree low.

I will go back, but not to this. Chinese side for me.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Jul 23, 2016 - 05:45pm PT
Every time a guided "climber" dies in the Himmies, the bitter old trad guy in me mourns for the family, but that's about it. It's time that the Darwin Awards are broadened to include a group category. Armchair bozos who naively write $80,000 checks for the privilege of playing alpine roulette are gonna win every year.
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Jul 23, 2016 - 06:15pm PT
Armchair bozos who naively write $80,000 checks for the privilege of playing alpine roulette are gonna win every year.

Not sure what you mean by that; what is winning?
ecdh

climber
the east
Jul 23, 2016 - 06:33pm PT
I blame the companies.

They have simply shipped the dodgy nepal model to pakistan lock stock barrel. Note that repirt mentions sherpas, not pakistani HAPs who fill a different role. Now top shelf sherpas suck up local jobs and risk dying on peaks they have no affiliation to. Its a twist on the whole exploitation thing thats out of left field.
Pakistan already has a dead tourism industry, now locals are displaced further with it seems zero interest from the companies.

Years ago i sat in islamabad, gilgit and skardu with local authorities who requested climbers came thru from china. Right to an immigration and customs levels the rules were changed to facilitate this, in part for security, in part to recusitate the small communities on the kkh.
To no avail.
Not A SINGLE western company or provider as far as i know has gone with this, for very aenemic reasons. Only some asian climbers take heed.

I have no qualms blaming western companies for the decay of all this. They f*#ked nepal knowingly and then shifted the exploitation model to pakistan. In cahoots with the western media (we wont mention names) its not been reported or mentioned. Rather we grinningly slap the backs of brave climbers for digging the hole deeper.

Apologies for harping on about my attempt, but in that recent time no guiding existed on k2, you joined a permit but climbed independantly above BC. The companies were few, just two maybe, and specified you needed specific experience before well beyond just 8000mers (ie independant tech climbing).
Chris Szymic nailed it by saying 'k2 and everest are not even the same sport''. Another guy simply said 'k2 is everest squared'.
I realize i may have been part of the turning point, but defend my position by saying id didnt choose the easiest route, tried it alpine style by acclimating elsewhere, didn't touch bottled O, no one carried my sh#t on the peak and used no fixed lines besides the traverse above C1 and the last part of the descent across the chute (where they f*#kin pulled out anyway). Sadly 2 from our bc are still up there.

Edit: note my planning was sh#t, so as an independant i turned around. No brown person existed to pick up my slack, there were no well stacked camps to hang around it. My cash didnt guarantee anything. I descended alone. And it cost well under $80k.

I feel old, that within my time a great peaks dignity is being pillaged by greed. Its not like everest which happened by increment, this has been intentional, unabashed and with ignorance. That it goes barely reported is a shame on a community that knows not what it is loosing.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Jul 23, 2016 - 07:21pm PT
Not sure what you mean by that; what is winning?

Why, they're going to win the Darwin Awards of course!
phylp

Trad climber
Upland, CA
Jul 23, 2016 - 10:13pm PT
This (guided climbs on K2) seems really surprising to me. What is their marketing motto? "come with us to K2, where you have almost no chance of summiting and an excellent chance of dying."
Stewart Johnson

Mountain climber
lake forest
Jul 23, 2016 - 10:38pm PT

johntp

Trad climber
socal
Jul 24, 2016 - 06:24am PT
Why, they're going to win the Darwin Awards of course!

HaHa!
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Jul 24, 2016 - 08:10am PT
This (guided climbs on K2) seems really surprising to me. What is their marketing motto? "come with us to K2, where you have almost no chance of summiting and an excellent chance of dying."

I worry for the guides and sherpas as well. Seems like an excellent opportunity to get totally screwed.
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Denver CO
Jul 19, 2017 - 04:29pm PT
K2 with a drone!
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