What happened to the new Yosemite guidebook thread?

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
This thread has been locked
Messages 61 - 74 of total 74 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Feb 28, 2019 - 03:34pm PT
That's my point - the list of stake holders and contributors and FA's in Reid's last publication is a mile long and tells frankly the most important story of climbing of any book ever published for the Valley - it's bigger than anyone and owned by everyone - and now it's all fallen into the hands of incompetent twits who know zero about how to get anything done at all much less how to get a guidebook published. The complete and utter lack of any accountability on top of that definitely rubs me the wrong way.
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Feb 28, 2019 - 08:23pm PT
important place for information to be passed along to the community, for those who feel it is important.
That's an odd thing to post given the reality. Reid in the past was the trusted book keeper of routes in the Valley. You guys were asked but refused to share this information - seeing as it's obvious it wasn't going to be published anytime soon - about public lands - choosing instead to leverage it for your own position and ego. Now a generation or two will miss it. Erik has been busy gathering on his own - how much are you now copying?
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Feb 28, 2019 - 08:35pm PT
^^^ has the answer not become incredibly clear and obvious to you at this point?
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Mar 1, 2019 - 09:54am PT
As I've probably posted on previous threads I don't think the application of 13th century technology (printed books) is the best way to transfer this knowledge.

Especially for a project of this magnitude a book(s) is the wrong medium IMO.

There is so much info the cost/size of a book will be prohibitive. A series of books will probably be even more expensive. No one wants to lug a 5 pound book on a climb to have the topo. As soon as it's printed it's out of date. You have to do all the work yourselves and can't leverage the community.

SuperTopo was a step in the right direction with pdfs so you can print out the page of the climb you want to do.

Mountain Project is good with the ability to crowd source to add and update routes.

I've used some smart phone apps, but they have just been okay.

I think a combination of multiple approaches may be the best for this project.

The app portion would probably be the best way to monetize the effort. e.g. $0.99 to $2.99 for the app. PDFs are great but too easy to be shared for free. Websites are great for community updates, adding routes, etc. but tough to monetize (I don't imagine advertising would bring in much revenue for a project of this limited demographic appeal).

So you'd have website, like Mountain Project / SuperTopo where people could add routes, updates, photos. People could drill down to a single route in the database and print one topo, etc. for free. Hopefully there'd be enough advertising revenue to pay for the hosting.

You'd have an app with all the routes in it. Maybe the ability to export a single topo at a time to pdf to print. Charge $1-3 for the app so everyone will be willing to buy it, cost won't be a factor for who buys it, but thousands of people buying it could generate some revenue. Maybe a subscription for updates. That is the way to bring in the most money. I know there's expenses to develop and even get listed on the app store, but there's also printing costs for a book.

Maybe also have the giant book, for more of a coffee table / picnic table in the campground reading.

The nice thing about a website is you could get the info out quickly / now, without worrying about if everything is ready. People would understand it's a work in progress.

Just some ideas. I'm glad you guys are undertaking this project and understand it's a lot of work and a labor of love.

Edit to add: maybe recruit a young tech saavy climber to drive the tech portion. Maybe don't have the website and worry about hosting. Just have the app. Have the app really cheap like $0.99 so everyone is willing to buy it, but you get some revenue, but have in app purchases: print, updates, no ads, etc. You could also have users easily add beta, photos, through the app.

Or maybe have the app free for a limited number of select climbs, and in app purchases for different crags, etc. I'm a believer is getting the app out for free/really cheap so people try it, if it proves valuable then I'm willing to do in app purchases to add functionality/content. If an app is easy to use people will add tons of photos/beta because it will be so easy. e.g. If you are at the start of the route and in the app looking at the topo anyway and notice there's no photo of the start of the route, then hit "add photo" and bam a photo tied to that location is right there.
Peter

Trad climber
San Francisco
Mar 1, 2019 - 11:08am PT
"The topos are all drawn. They have been done for over a year and a half. All of the estimated 3,500 something routes have been redrawn and corrected.

The written description are about half done.

The overlays still need to be done onto photos.

Much of the cliff pictures have already been taken. Some still need to be done."

Is there any way we can see some of these 3,500 tops so we can just start climbing? More than happy to pay for the privilege and maybe that will help fund the project.

I appreciate all the effort, but it seems like it's still going to be years and years until the results are published.
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Mar 1, 2019 - 12:58pm PT
You'd have an app with all the routes in it.
Good luck with that. The MP.com app is about a decade out of more than 1 full time modern software engineer. Every OS change out of Android and Apple has driven changes, maintenance and updates. It's way more complicated than Fortran from the 50's in some government funded lab.

UnAble reads like the idea guy - shows up with a pile of scratch and napkins detailing out the most obscure choss ever repeated in the Valley. Ed sounds like he's 14 years into Ch 1 of Adobe Illustrator for Dummies. Clint sounds like he said fuk this and ran. Turn all that into a modern app? Yeah, right.

What has been accomplished? Focusing in on the facts presented in their posts - it sounds they've dik'd around with Reid's 2005 topos for the past 14 years - adding very little beyond pile upon pile of easy bottom-end choss.

IMO, get on Amazon and find an old copy of Reid, if you really want this stuff. Otherwise, IMO, Erik's guide is state of the art and will eventually grow into the only available comprehensive guide.
Matt's

climber
Mar 1, 2019 - 01:20pm PT
There seems to be a lot of misconceptions here

1) I don't think this guidebook is a commercial endeavor, so thinking of it from that perspective is not useful.

2) Yosemite is huge. A relatively low percent of the routes drawn in the Reid/Sloan guides are accurate. It is easy to draw a line on a piece of paper-- it's 10-100 times harder to ensure that each line drawn is actually accurate. This effort needs to be scaled across thousands of climbs on many different formations.
Alexey

climber
San Jose, CA
Mar 1, 2019 - 01:27pm PT
Erik's guide is state of the art
JLP, How much Sloan pay to you for being his press secretary?
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Mar 1, 2019 - 04:25pm PT
So I'm looking on Amazon and I see Reid's guides selling used starting at $1.51 - Big Walls and Free Climbs separate. Lots of supply.

The 1987 "Combined" guide that has all the obscurities still there, including the Falls climbs, is selling for a whopping $35.

Seeing as these guys are looking for people to provide input on the harder free routes - and there's no way in heck they're going to come even close to the detail and accuracy Erik is able to provide on the big walls...

I have no idea what people are waiting for from these guys.

Other than easy obscure choss, and the exact location thereof.

A line on the page, rack says "nuts to 3 inch" - what else do you need?
shylock

Social climber
mb
Mar 1, 2019 - 04:48pm PT
Although always rude, jlp always has a point, and I agree with him here. Reid’s guide was instrumental in my valley climbing. No it wasn’t always exactly accurate, but how boring it would have been to only have the st book.

Sloan’s book is beautiful, no doubt, and he has managed to get some new (recently put up or and/or just not in any previous guide) stuff in it. Definitely can’t conpete with his big wall info, putting aside how much of that was maybe not his work.

I do know there’s more than just choss out there that we don’t know about. I’d love to see it. Well even the choss too. But there’s still plenty in the Reid guide to do so whatever... Erik gives us pretty photos so I guess I’m not sure what else I want...
WBraun

climber
Apr 2, 2019 - 08:37am PT
None of you complainers here even climb.

What do you need a guide book for?
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Apr 2, 2019 - 11:39am PT
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Apr 3, 2019 - 06:37pm PT
This ain't no Jesus on toast pareidolia. The 200+ page Lower Merced Canyon chapter of the Comprehensive Yosemite Valley Guidebook is contained in the black binder on the table. Photo taken during lunch today.

NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Apr 3, 2019 - 07:03pm PT
I am fully faithful! I have fond memories of Reed's turn-out random encounters, seeing old friends, and new route suggestions purveyed therefrom. I'm going to dig getting lost in this tome / these tomes.
Messages 61 - 74 of total 74 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
 
Our Guidebooks
spacerCheck 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks

guidebook icon
Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Recent Route Beta